Determining where a unit "exists" and how it is supported

[MyIndianNameIsSpoon 1]

Not certain that this is in the right thread, but here goes:

Let's say a scout unit's chartering organization is located in District A, but it meets in District B. Questions include:

- what district is the unit a part of?

- which district executive supports that unit?

- at the time of recharter, is the unit supported by the staff of District A or District B?

Finally, does National have any policy on this? 

The questions arise due to adjustment of district boundaries; among other things, some units believe they will no longer be able to participate in activities conducted by their former district, because of the way the lines were drawn.

Thoughts? Questions? Thanks in advance for your input.

[InquisitiveScouter 1701]

44 minutes ago, MyIndianNameIsSpoon said:

Not certain that this is in the right thread, but here goes:

Let's say a scout unit's chartering organization is located in District A, but it meets in District B. Questions include:

- what district is the unit a part of?

- which district executive supports that unit?

- at the time of recharter, is the unit supported by the staff of District A or District B?

Finally, does National have any policy on this? 

The questions arise due to adjustment of district boundaries; among other things, some units believe they will no longer be able to participate in activities conducted by their former district, because of the way the lines were drawn.

Thoughts? Questions? Thanks in advance for your input.

The unit is in District A, the location of your CO.  The CO owns the unit, regardless of where it meets.

The DE for District A supports.

At recharter, same as above... DE for District A.

No, no National policy... the only thing remotely covering is that the council has geographic boundaries... and CO's located in those boundaries are chartered within that council.

The council gets to determine its own geographic or functional boundaries for its districts.

Edited March 27 by InquisitiveScouter

[Wëlënakwsu 57]

No idea what the BSA system allows.... but where do you want to be registered?  I'd  pursue that District.

There may not be much practical difference to your District affiliation.  DE support could vary between Districts, but often there is little difference between Districts.  For training, events, etc... most Districts welcome participation from other Districts' Units.

I'm in an area where 3 States and 5 Councils are close to each other.  Not too long ago when I was a District Commissioner we had a Unit who was registered in Council A, CO was in Council B, usual meeting place was in Council C and they occasionally had meetings in Council D. I vaguely recall they were registered in Council A because many (30-40?) years prior their CO and meeting place were in A.  

 

[scoutldr 739]

As stated above, your District is where the physical address of the CO is located.  We had a situation where we got a new CO, which was physically in a different city and district, by about 100 feet.  The SE made an exception for us, since the IH lived within our old district.

[MyIndianNameIsSpoon 1]

Thanks to all for your responses!

[fred8033 1608]

Not that rare.  It happens.

District boundaries are not a law or contract.  It's just to simplify grouping of units and to balance numbers.  If your unit fits better for one of many reasons in another district, work to advocate being in that district.  Get the unit assigned to that district.  

Flexibility - Even if you can't get your unit reassigned to that district, you can still attend roundtable and often even events in the other district.  It's all about what works best.   For example, all your friends might attend in the other district.  Or the other district's roundtable or events conflict with standing troop date commitments.  Then, attending the other district might work better long term. 

Challenges - If not formally assigned to the desired district, your paperwork goes to the other district.  Example, advancement and awards would go to the other district.   

[MyIndianNameIsSpoon 1]

Appreciate the advice. The issue ties in to a council reorganization, adjusting district boundaries to balance volunteer resources. At times, there is an issue with being able to attend activities in other districts, due to size limitations of the chosen venue (camporees, klondike derbies).

[InquisitiveScouter 1701]

Ahh... you are not limited to attending events in your District.  You can go where ever convenience dictates.

If anyone gives you the stink eye tell them you got permission from Scouter.com !! LOL

[MyIndianNameIsSpoon 1]

. . . and who could possibly quibble with such a strong defense! LOL

[SSScout 1627]

Waaay back when, all we cared about were counties and states.  With the later proliferation of Scout units, TPTB started dividing up the counties into Scout Districts, each with a DE to  oversee them, sign the Important Papers (remember that campfire skit? Still allowed?). 

As paid Scouters and volunteer Scouters came and went,  (I worked in a government agency, and can attest to this ), they would often seek to "leave a heritage", and so would re-arrange the districts to "make things more efficient" or "more logical" or....   

Since becoming an Adult Scouter, I can document living and Scouting in no fewer than 5 defined and named "districts".   I have the patches to prove the naming of at least three of these.... 

Same hikes, many of the same wonderful Scout friends, same campgrounds, seemingly the same Scouts, but when I pay attention, the faces do change. . Different faces, same dirty boots....  

Sic Gloria Mundi. 

[Eagle94-A1 2747]

I have found that pros come and go, usually on a yearly basis. And most folks stay around until their kids age out the movement. There has always been a cadre of long time volunteers, whose knowledge. skills, abilities, time, and treasure could be relied upon to keep things running. I have been in multiple councils in my 42 years of Scouting. And that fact is one of the few constants.

[Tron 101]

Literally just went through this. My district had a unit meeting in a different district. No national policies that could be found. The unit belonged to the district of the mailing address of the charter organization. The only real issues were that the unit was not communicating with the district executive, so he couldn't help them figure out how to solve their problem (which appeared to be the charter org wanted the unit out but didn't want to just drop the charter so they were being nobs to the parents and leaders). As a volunteer trying to help the unit once the district knew what was going on it was a nightmare because the unit was imploding because they were meeting so far away from where most of the families in the unit lived. 

A little bit older situation that might still be ongoing. My district has a unit that refuses to participate with council except for what they are mandated. The unit sends all of their leaders to neighboring councils for their training (IOLS, Wood Badge, etc ... ), they only camp at the neighboring councils camps, the SM has been heard literally stating "If we could register with the neighboring council we would" so that makes me believe that you have to register with your council that your CO geographically falls in. My DE has told me that as long as the adults are getting trained and the unit is camping he would rather have that then have an untrained unit that doesn't camp and so he lets it be.

[InquisitiveScouter 1701]

58 minutes ago, Tron said:

My district has a unit that refuses to participate with council except for what they are mandated.

Mandated?? A unit is "mandated" to participate in nothing.  If a council ever told us we had to participate in something, we would just ignore them.

58 minutes ago, Tron said:

The unit sends all of their leaders to neighboring councils for their training (IOLS, Wood Badge, etc ... ), they only camp at the neighboring councils camps,

You should have zero problem with this.  If, by the mere location of geographic boundaries, a unit in Council A happens to be closer to all facilities and support in Council B, then there should be zero issues with them getting their Scouting groove on in Council B.

Furthermore, if Council B's training and support (like a Scout Shop or camporees) are better, then units can (and should) vote with their feet.

Units DO NOT exist to be cash cows for councils.

58 minutes ago, Tron said:

the SM has been heard literally stating "If we could register with the neighboring council we would" so that makes me believe that you have to register with your council that your CO geographically falls in. My DE has told me that as long as the adults are getting trained and the unit is camping he would rather have that then have an untrained unit that doesn't camp and so he lets it be.

Yes, you must register in the council that your CO physically resides in. 

Your DE is 100% right.

Edited May 14 by InquisitiveScouter

[Tron 101]

20 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Mandated?? A unit is "mandated" to participate in nothing.  If a council ever told us we had to participate in something, we would just ignore them.

False, units are mandated to participate in YPT and adult training. Go read your adult registration form. If you can't figure out how to do it online you are mandated to go in person. Furthermore, though never enforced, councils can mandate that you do your adult leader training in person (which is why when you run a unit adult training report there is that weird little column that shows mandatory in person training but does not ding you as untrained if you completed the online version). 

20 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

You should have zero problem with this.  If, by the mere location of geographic boundaries, a unit in Council A happens to be closer to all facilities and support in Council B, then there should be zero issues with them getting their Scouting groove on in Council B.

Try again. Every time units decide to not participate in their local council they are weakening the council, they are breaking down the scouting community. Camporees have less energy from less units/scouts, klondikes have less competition, round-tables have less value when fewer people are bringing their knowledge and experience to the table.

20 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Units DO NOT exist to be cash cows for councils.

You are correct, and it's funny how this unit has higher costs because they are going out of council. By refusing to participate in the council of registry they have become a cash cow for the neighboring council. Man it sure is thrifty when that unit pays all those out-of-council fees in neighboring councils. 

[InquisitiveScouter 1701]

3 hours ago, Tron said:

False, units are mandated to participate in YPT and adult training. Go read your adult registration form. If you can't figure out how to do it online you are mandated to go in person. Furthermore, though never enforced, councils can mandate that you do your adult leader training in person (which is why when you run a unit adult training report there is that weird little column that shows mandatory in person training but does not ding you as untrained if you completed the online version). 

LOL, thought you were talking about council/district events.  Training is another matter...

(Even so, training is not a unit mandated thing... those are mandates on individuals.)

3 hours ago, Tron said:

Try again. Every time units decide to not participate in their local council they are weakening the council, they are breaking down the scouting community.

Disagree

3 hours ago, Tron said:

Camporees have less energy from less units/scouts, klondikes have less competition,

Sure, but if a PLC decides they do not wish to participate in these events, you should support their decision.  For example, our Scouts choose not to go to many of these events because they are tired of WINNING!!  For most competitions, it isn't even close.  It just isn't fun for them to whoop everyone's behind.  So, they only attend these things about once every three years.  And we adults are fine with that. (If those events do not coincide with a unit event, we do encourage our Scouts to run stations or judge events... which they often do.)

We have the capability and experience to plan and execute our own program, thank you.  Most council/district events are tailored for units with little time or experience.  They need the program support.  We do not.

And, for the record, we would operate fine without any council overhead here.  We can even (and have) run our own summer camp.

3 hours ago, Tron said:

Man it sure is thrifty when that unit pays all those out-of-council fees in neighboring councils

That is up to them...  Perhaps they see those events as more value-added to their program than your council events.  To each his own. 

I side with the units on that one.

Edited May 15 by InquisitiveScouter