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On 1/24/2020 at 6:22 PM, Eagledad said:

I would enjoy heart them. There was a crew of older scouts that dressed in perfect Class  “A” uniforms and some thru their trek. We could here them when they were close. It’s the kind of stuff I believe OA scouts could do for elite status.

Barry

I keep imaging 6 days of team building activities.  I'm sure it's a lot more than that, but this is one of those times the vagueness isn't helping me.

Btw - gotta admit, having a Summit version is a good thing.  The course fee is reasonable for this and it's nice that as a East Coast person I can drive there.

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3 hours ago, ParkMan said:

I keep imaging 6 days of team building activities.  I'm sure it's a lot more than that, but this is one of those times the vagueness isn't helping me.

Btw - gotta admit, having a Summit version is a good thing.  The course fee is reasonable for this and it's nice that as a East Coast person I can drive there.

You are right that it is 6 days of team building activities - but they are not the simple/staged/forced/artificial activities that you're probably envisioning.  Things are more scenario based.  Without giving anything away, the activities include: cooking (crews prepare their own dinners), challenge events (low COPE), wilderness first aid scenarios, realistic first aid (moulage), geocaching challenge, search and rescue scenarios.  Woven into these is a lot of West Virginia history and several practical skills like LNT, UTM and using radios in a field exercise.  There is a backpacking overnight, a conservation project and a rededication to Scouting ceremony.

You can see how there is lots of team building opportunity without being traditional team building activities.  And remember - this is not an outdoor skills session, it is a leadership session.  You will (may) learn some new outdoor skills or activities that you can take back to your unit but the focus for the course is on the leadership aspects of the activity.

Philmont is in my soul but Im excited to visit Summit and have that whole new experience.  And, I too can drive so that's a bonus.

 

 

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3 hours ago, jjlash said:

You are right that it is 6 days of team building activities - but they are not the simple/staged/forced/artificial activities that you're probably envisioning.  Things are more scenario based.  Without giving anything away, the activities include: cooking (crews prepare their own dinners), challenge events (low COPE), wilderness first aid scenarios, realistic first aid (moulage), geocaching challenge, search and rescue scenarios.  Woven into these is a lot of West Virginia history and several practical skills like LNT, UTM and using radios in a field exercise.  There is a backpacking overnight, a conservation project and a rededication to Scouting ceremony.

You can see how there is lots of team building opportunity without being traditional team building activities.  And remember - this is not an outdoor skills session, it is a leadership session.  You will (may) learn some new outdoor skills or activities that you can take back to your unit but the focus for the course is on the leadership aspects of the activity.

Philmont is in my soul but Im excited to visit Summit and have that whole new experience.  And, I too can drive so that's a bonus.

 

 

Thank you again @jjlash.  This continues to be great background info and very helpful as I discern whether this is a good fit for me.  My sense is yes - this would be helpful in continuing to grow as a leader in Scouting - particularly in this era with parents and leaders from so many backgrounds.

I checked again and we're still on for a summer family trip that same week.  I'll have to keep it on the list for 2021.

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2 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Thank you again @jjlash.  This continues to be great background info and very helpful as I discern whether this is a good fit for me.  My sense is yes - this would be helpful in continuing to grow as a leader in Scouting - particularly in this era with parents and leaders from so many backgrounds.

I checked again and we're still on for a summer family trip that same week.  I'll have to keep it on the list for 2021.

I understand - it took me 3 years to make the schedule and money work so I could attend.   

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, jjlash said:

Without giving anything away, the activities include: cooking (crews prepare their own dinners), challenge events (low COPE), wilderness first aid scenarios, realistic first aid (moulage), geocaching challenge, search and rescue scenarios.  Woven into these is a lot of West Virginia history and several practical skills like LNT, UTM and using radios in a field exercise.  There is a backpacking overnight, a conservation project and a rededication to Scouting ceremony.

 

I think this is what people are looking for when they ask for a syllabus. Like for a college course. 2-3 pages, maybe double sided, with an outline. A syllabus is not a staff manual or even student book.  If too much is given away by a syllabus, I would question the depth of the training. For the cost and the time investment, it is funny that they don’t have a bit more than a glossy brochure and a “trust is, it is good” approach. 

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37 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

I think this is what people are looking for when they ask for a syllabus. Like for a college course. 2-3 pages, maybe double sided, with an outline. A syllabus is not a staff manual or even student book.  If too much is given away by a syllabus, I would question the depth of the training. For the cost and the time investment, it is funny that they don’t have a bit more than a glossy brochure and a “trust is, it is good” approach. 

Ah....that makes sense.

What is available seems to change from year to year.  The Philmont Training Center website used to list many of the activities - that is what made me interested in attending 5 years ago.  Now it doesnt mention any of the activities (and the Summit website has even less).  But if you scroll way down there is a link to the PLC Guidebook.  It also doesnt mention any of the activities but it does give some insight with things like a gear list.  

 

 

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@jjlash - thanks again for adding your insight here.  It's been very helpful.

Since you're on staff and I know that occasionally other national folks check this forum, let me generally second @mrjohns2 comment.  

I think it's pretty natural for people who are weighing taking a 4-6 day course to look at it and ask - "is this worth it for me?"  Wood Badge gets this question a lot already - what will we do, what should I expect, is it work 2 days off from work, and is it work $250 to attend?

In the case of SLC or PLC, it's $450, 5 or 6 days off from work, and probably a plane ticket ($500), so it's even more likely folks are going to kick the tires.  Myself, I spend a lot of time on Scouting, but going to my wife and saying I'm going to head off to leadership class for a week requires a bit of a sell.  I'm not suggesting that the staff document every bit of the course and give away some of the "ahh ha" moments - but putting info out there like we've been discussing I think would help with enrollment.  I'd probably even go further and suggest that some info on how the activities planned will help equip me as a leader would be good too.  

Please don't take my comment as a criticism.  Instead, I'd just be happy to see the program be even more popular and am optimistic that some additional promotion might help.  Then again, maybe given staff and other constraints the program is currently full and it makes sense to only open it to those that are committed enough to seek this kind of program out.

 

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I agree @ParkMan - there is not much information about the course.  And I find that to be true for all of the Training Center courses.  In fact, I find it to be true for Wood Badge - except that WB has been around so long and there us such a large body of people who have attended that it is very easy to find people who talk about it and write about it unofficially.

Leadership Challenge is really no different than other courses.  Even though it is put on by National and held at a training center it is still run entirely by volunteers.  And that includes the promotion and recruiting. 

I was just re-reading the flyers that they post for the course.  It does a "just okay" job of stating the purpose of the course (practical application of WB skills) but there is zero marketing language.  There is nothing to get someone excited.  Or even pique their interest.  

You are absolutely right that we should do better if we want it to grow.  Im going to capture the highlights of this discussion and pass it along to the course director (and the Scouting-U folks if I get the chance) so we can do better. Thank you!

 

 

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Much appreciated @jjlash.  I'm 100% in sync with you.  As a repeat WB staffer, I see the same issues and we have the same conversations at a local level.  I appreciate you seeing my comments for what they were - friendly feedback.

I look forward to hearing how the course goes.  Maybe we'll both be there in 2021 :)

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