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Hawkwin

SM Conference for higher ranks ONLY on campouts?

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Got a response from the DC within a couple of hours. Very pleased with how he handled it. Not the result I necessarily wanted but I very much appreciate the time and consideration they provided. I learned for the first time that the SM is stepping down to ASM in January so while we may not get the result we wanted, we might avoid any complications in the future if we just be patient. Doesn't fix the lack of response from the CC but unless I take on an active role in the troop, I don't see the need to really interact with them again.

I will likely seek out the future SM and ask him what his policy might be on this issue in the future. Since this seems to be solely at the discretion of SM (unless the COR decides to override them), I am hopeful that we can discuss it like two rational adults with an eye toward what is best for the scouts.

Edited by Hawkwin

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3 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Got a response from the DC within a couple of hours. Very pleased with how he handled it. Not the result I necessarily wanted but I very much appreciate the time and consideration they provided.

Did the DC at least agree with you that the SM's policy is clearly wrong?

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5 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

I learned for the first time that the SM is stepping down to ASM in January so while we may not get the result we wanted, we might avoid any complications in the future if we just be patient.

So is your son going to wait until January to advance in rank?

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2 minutes ago, gblotter said:

Your SM and CC won't back down.

Are you my DC? 😆 That is almost identical to what he stated too. He indicated that I could request a formal appeal to the district if I appeal the COR and they don't back down either, but, and I loved this response, he stated that option was "not overly palatable." 😁

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8 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

I will likely seek out the future SM and ask him what his policy might be on this issue in the future.

Do you know who the new SM is already? If so, then perhaps you have an avenue to stay in this troop. But I'd definitely worry about the old SM's influence if he is sticking around as ASM.

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20 minutes ago, gblotter said:

Did the DC at least agree with you that the SM's policy is clearly wrong?

Yep.

 

18 minutes ago, gblotter said:

So is your son going to wait until January to advance in rank?

No. we will see what the committee says, as well as what the incoming SM thinks of this policy, and then if need be, let my son decide if he wants to wait until the November camp out for a SM conference and a BOR in December or if he has had enough and wants to switch troops. Very likely, he will chose to wait. Switching troops is very likely more disruptive to him than delayed advancement.

Edited by Hawkwin

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14 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Doesn't fix the lack of response from the CC but unless I take on an active role in the troop, I don't see the need to really interact with them again.

Even after the SM steps down, you will deal with the CC again as your son approaches Eagle. The CC must review, approve, and sign off (including his physical signature) on both the Eagle Scout Service Project and the Eagle Scout application. Just as now, he can be unresponsive and add more misery if he chooses. You won't be able to avoid interacting with him.

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Just now, gblotter said:

Do you know who the new SM is already? If so, then perhaps you have an avenue to stay in this troop. But I'd definitely worry about the old SM's influence if he is sticking around as ASM.

Yes. He is currently an ASM in the troop. I will likely try to reach him by phone tomorrow. The current SM already announced he has plans to move away in a couple of years or so. I just didn't know he was stepping down prior to that departure (which is a really good idea for the new SM to take over while the previous SM is still available to assist).

I guess I wonder just what the existing SM would think they accomplish by making things hard for my son - and I don't envision how that would even happen. My only current connection to the troop is as a MBC so I don't see how they could make life hard for me either but then I might just not have enough imagination on this issue. I have a lot of good connections with many of the other ASMs and committee members - many for which we were in the same pack together. I would hope that our existing relationship would counteract any undue influence he might try to exert.

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1 minute ago, gblotter said:

Even after the SM steps down, you will deal with the CC again as your son approaches Eagle. The CC must review, approve, and sign off (including his physical signature) on both the Eagle Scout Service Project and the Eagle Scout application. Just as now, he can be unresponsive and add more misery if he chooses. You won't be able to avoid interacting with him.

Yuck! Food for thought - but since my son is not quite 13, I hope we have plenty of time to let this become water under the bridge for him. If not, then our choice at that time (or prior) will certainly be clear. The troop down the road would be glad to welcome another future Eagle to their ranks.

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I'm sorry you've had to endure this. It really is appalling that the SM and CC would persist with this errant policy even after being called out in Scouting Magazine. You obviously know your situation best, so I'll respect your decision to stay with this troop. I applaud your positive attitude and wish you and your son better luck with the new SM.

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Maybe calmer heads will prevail and they will change.  I don't think that will happen but we will see.  Typically when a SM steps down to an ASM, they don't hang around much.  It is a hard change.  I know this from personal experience.  I would reach out to the new SM and go have lunch and just chat  about it.  Maybe see how you can help the troop in other ways.

For example this is how it should work.  Tonight a scout in our Sea Scout Ship asked for a Skipper conference 30 minutes after our meeting.  The Skipper(SM) is out of town next week, so he looks at me and asks me a Mate(ASM) if I can handle it next week and make sure that the bridge of review happens as well.  Scout asked, it couldn't be done at that moment but the Scouter made sure to come up with a plan that helps the scout move forward.

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CC emailed me back tonight. Apparently they heard from the district. CC indicated they had already made plans to discuss this at the next committee meeting. Was not happy that I did not give them enough time to respond to my emails or that I got the district involved. I apologized for not giving him enough time to respond. I assumed the best intentions for four days but on the fifth day, I gave up and got the district involved. My fault. I will own that.

CC meeting is on Tuesday. Will see how that goes. I get the sense that this policy might actually change.

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1 minute ago, Hawkwin said:

Was not happy that I did not give them enough time to respond to my emails or that I got the district involved. I apologized for not giving him enough time to respond. I assumed the best intentions for four days but on the fifth day, I gave up and got the district involved. My fault. I will own that.

It is not your fault. All the CC had to do was shoot you a quick response saying that it would be discussed at the next committee meeting. He is at fault for remaining silent.

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7 hours ago, fred johnson said:

@Hawkwin - I fear you are burning bridges with the troop.  Though I think the scoutmaster is very very wrong here, you and your son have to continue in this troop through Eagle.  Or switch to another troop.  Scoutmaster can be a fiefdom owned by the scoutmaster.  It's not always right, but it's how it often is.

Sadly, I would wager also that this is the case.

@Hawkwinin as much as the SM and CC have chosen to be unresponsive to you and your son, I'm sure that the tSM and CC have discussed this issue between themselves and possibly with other committee members who they, most likely, have swayed to their way of thinking.

You can report to the District or Council but all that will happen is that the District or Council will remind the SM and the CC of the Guide to Advancement rules. As Fred noted, your son and your family will still have to continue with this troop.

It is definitely worth considering if staying with this particular troop is the right thing to do for your son.

Edited by SSF

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6 hours ago, an_old_DC said:

I have to agree with @fred johnson on this. I too believe the SM is wrong on this, but @Hawkwinyou are mistaken if you think somebody will "make" the SM drop his policy. I have seen this played out numerous times, and unless there is a legitimate safety or YPT violation, nothing usually changes. Your son can ask for a BOR under disputed circumstances without the SM conference, and then have the BOR conducted by district volunteers. But what then? Unless he switches troops, he's gonna be "that Scout," and you will be "that parent" to the SM, CC and other adults. It'll be difficult for your son.

I have also seen troops tell a family "this is the way we have always done things and if you don't like it, maybe its best for you to find another troop."

Not saying any of this is right, but it's the way things play out sometimes.

 

All too true

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