Bound Leader Books?

[blw2 433]

I just received the "Troop Leader Guidebook" I ordered to read through.  I've already read through most of the Troop Committee Guidebook

 

Ugh,  Is there any way to order a bound copy of these leader books?

 

To me, for some reason a book in a binder seems more like a cheesy collection of notes, cheaply done for some lame seminar.  I think my sub conscience mind just rebels against them.  I was reading through the 1st few pages loosely, then decided to get a binder. As soon as I clipped the pages in, and started to pick-up where I had left off, my mind was just not interested in reading anymore.  Then it dawned on me..... It's the binder!

 

Incidentally, the binder I used was my old Baloo course binder, that I no longer need need.... and incidentally have never refereed to since the class.... very likely partially because of the silly binder!

 

I've tried the three ring binders for them.  I've used the folders with prongs. Of course all terrible.  The style of binder we use in this country are really just a very poor design concept.  There are other types of binders used in other countries, that in all ways seem to function better.... but still it's a horrible way to present a book.

 

Any of these methods do not read well, are not very durable or pack-able, they look horrible sitting on a bookshelf.  

 

A bound book is superior in almost every way.  

IMHO, the ONLY exception might be a critical reference that is updated by page or section frequently.. such as the approach plates used by pilots.  (a book that contains all of the airport instrument arrival and departure procedures, approaches, and other airport information for airports in a given region or area).

 

Sure, they are more expensive, but I would happily pay a reasonable premium for it, if it truly is a useful reference.

 

Perhaps BSA really doesn't consider these thing to be very useful!

[qwazse 4345]

Once upon a time, there was this http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Bookbinding

[KenD500 77]

I'm guessing they only offer it loose leaf due to cost.  It's the same as the local colleges offering government books (something that changes yearly) only loose leaf.

 

You could get yours bound.

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

I've learned to live with binders through my job. Because the medical field is constantly changing, policies and procedures change on a regular basis. Heck I remember a few years back, we changed one policy twice in a 4 month period!

[Eagledad 2779]

Kinkos does binding. We had our Wood Badge Course books bound by them. I have my motorcycle and car maintenance manuals bound there as well.

 

Barry

[blw2 433]

Kinkos does binding. We had our Wood Badge Course books bound by them. I have my motorcycle and car maintenance manuals bound there as well.

 

Barry

interesting!  Do they do glued bindings?

I knew about the spiral stuff, and similar.... didn't know that they did what I would call a real binding.  

I'd prefer a lightweight hardback most of the time, but would be happy if I could get it paper-backed.

 

Honestly though, now that I've taken an hour or so and flipped through the book, I doubt if its something I would really want to take with me or refer to much at all.  I'll look through it again, but It just doesn't look like taht great of a resource.

[fred johnson 936]

I agree on the binding discussion.

 

I just get frustrated.  I am betting of the scout units in our council, less than 10% of the troop leaders have bothered to get the old or new troop leader handbooks / guides.  I am betting less than 5% read them.  

 

As for the new books, I doubt anyone will notice any of the updates as the books just won't be read in much detail.

 

BSA SHOULD PUBLISH THE ADULT LEADER GUIDES (troop leader, committee, charter org) as PDFs ... ONLINE ... and ... FOR FREE.  I've seen many people throw around quotes from the GTA now that it's easily accessible.  We can whip it open at any time.  I know many parents that even open it.  Same to Guide To Safe Scouting.  

 

IMHO, the program would be better and BSA would save money if they just made these books available ONLINE and FOR FREE.  It should NOT be a profit center or even a break even center.  

 

Only books that should be published and expected to be bought is the Boy Scout Handbooks ... and maybe .. the Cub Scout rank books (maybe).  

[qwazse 4345]

...

I just get frustrated. I am betting of the scout units in our council, less than 10% of the troop leaders have bothered to get the old or new troop leader handbooks / guides. I am betting less than 5% read them.

 

As for the new books, I doubt anyone will notice any of the updates as the books just won't be read in much detail.

 

BSA SHOULD PUBLISH THE ADULT LEADER GUIDES (troop leader, committee, charter org) as PDFs ... ONLINE ... and ... FOR FREE. I've seen many people throw around quotes from the GTA now that it's easily accessible. We can whip it open at any time. I know many parents that even open it. Same to Guide To Safe Scouting.

...

 

Ain't socialism great?

Why would your estimated 90% of scouters who don't buy these books want to underwrite the cost for the 10% who do?

If I'm running a cub or venturing program, why would I want to pay for a troop leader's handbook?

 

People throw around GTA and G2SS quotes because those publications have information that impacts virtually every program, and essential material is consolidated there. The insignia guide? Not so much because most folks function nicely without it.

 

I do think, however, BSA would do just as well with a print-on-demand service.

Edited February 15, 2016 by qwazse

[fred johnson 936]

Ain't socialism great?

Why would your estimated 90% of scouters who don't buy these books want to underwrite the cost for the 10% who do?

If I'm running a cub or venturing program, why would I want to pay for a troop leader's handbook?

 

Socialism.  Meh.  Pick a fight elsewhere.  

 

The issue is some books are big profit centers (Boy scout handbook, cub scout rank books).  Some books are around break even after you adjust for cost of shelf space and all the paper BSA throws away when the versions are updated.  

 

Even then, we're already paying for the books through dues and other fund raising.  

 

Cost to update and publish a new online PDF document version is fast, easy, cheap and very cost effective.  Cost to publish a physical paper document stocked in 100s, if not 1000+, scout stores is extremely expensive, takes a lot of time, coordination and causes lots of waste when the old versions have to be thrown away.  

 

Even more important, we'll have a better program by making the leader materials as easily accessible as possible.  We want the absolute best leaders possible.  To get there, we want the materials readily accessible so when leaders are driven to learn, they can grab it right away and start.  Not wait a week or or a month or so until they are at a scout store ... when the spark to dig in and learn is gone.  

Edited February 16, 2016 by fred johnson

[qwazse 4345]

You forgot the cost of the servers and maintenance, which increases greatly per download. Then there is the offloaded cost ...

Pray tell, who is going to pay for each scouter's paper and ink? Or, their electronic device? I'd rather a scouter buy more tarps and rope.

 

At roundtable there is a constant demand for printed material. And the folks who demand it are pretty good scouters who "don't do E-mail."

 

Our precious forum that looks things up online ... That represents a minority of scouters. It's convenient for us 'cause we have IT for business or entertaining ourselves. Not everyone is in that bubble.

[Stosh 3452]

I interviewed for a job in the IT department of a global publishing company and didn't do very well.  I asked too many questions of my own.    After the interview, they gave me a tour of their facilities.  It has a HUGE, no, a REALLY HUGE warehouse of pallet after pallet of printed materials.  They had the most frequently requested material located the closest to the shipping area.  The person then told me they had expansion plans to DOUBLE the size of the warehouse within the next couple of years.

 

Seriously?  I asked why they didn't go to digital?  They said there are people out there that want printed copies and so I asked, why not just Print-On-Demand for those few?  They said it wouldn't be feasible.  To which I pretty much ended the interview by saying, "But having multi-million dollars worth of unsold inventory tied up in an ever increasing warehouse expansion project is feasible?"

 

A scout is Thrifty.  When is that going to sink in?

[Stosh 3452]

You forgot the cost of the servers and maintenance, which increases greatly per download. Then there is the offloaded cost ...

Pray tell, who is going to pay for each scouter's paper and ink? Or, their electronic device? I'd rather a scouter buy more tarps and rope.

 

At roundtable there is a constant demand for printed material. And the folks who demand it are pretty good scouters who "don't do E-mail."

 

Our precious forum that looks things up online ... That represents a minority of scouters. It's convenient for us 'cause we have IT for business or entertaining ourselves. Not everyone is in that bubble.

 

Yes, the world is full of Luddites and those issues can be addressed quite easily.  In today's world I'm sure there is at least one person in each troop that has 21st Century IT knowledge capable of getting information electronically.  Yes. they may not have a Smartphone/iPhone, and they may not have a PC at home, but I've traveled all around this country and when I needed to check my email. every little small town library has a PC or two to help people connect up with the world. 

 

So, it might cost a troop a few bucks to print off a copy of the BSA publication needed, but if the BSA didn't have millions of dollars tied up in inventory in some expensive warehouse, they might not need to keep bumping the registration fees every year to pay for arcane practices.  Just keep it in mind that every newspaper printed beyond what is sold today is not worth anything tomorrow.  Somebody's going to pay for that and it's not the customer.

[blw2 433]

another upshot to the digital is that it might be easier to synchronize everything so there aren't so many conflicts.

and compile them into fewer but larger sources that are searchable.

 

But

For something that I refer to often, I'd almost always prefer a hardbacked book, or at least a "perfect bound" one.

 

I don't know why, but I have noticed that when I'm researching through stuff like BSA documents and handbooks online I often feel uncomfortable and don't retain as much.... but then as soon as I press print, and hold the pages in my hand, i can flip back and forth better, and for some odd reason, I understand and retain it much better!

 

Happened to me just the other day.... I was reading through the help pages for our troop software service.  Lots of links on most pages pointing to other pages so I was getting lost.

As soon as I printed out all 60 pages of the financial help chapter, I could read through in order and make much more sense of it.

[Stosh 3452]

For those that need the hands-on book, they should be available, but not everyone does.  For those that don't need it, a digital option should be made available.  Remember, it only takes so much $ to produce an edited version of any BSA document, after that it costs nothing to put it out there are digitally available to those that want it that way.  The person requiring printed copies needs to pay extra for the paper, ink, labor and postage necessary to produce and deliver the book.  That's only fair.

[qwazse 4345]

FWIW, I really like the most recent GTA on scouting.org. It has the plain text in web pages and you can click back and forth reasonably well.

 

Print-on-demand via a central facility includes binding, covers, etc ... sometimes as end-user-specified options. I have friends (writers, trainers and such) who swear by it.

If the facility gets 100 orders, it prints that many in the same hour (minute?) ... with the mailing label on the book ... far cheaper than your own ink and paper. Probably worth waiting a day or two for delivery.

 

I could see this as a great model for scouting. Basic html frame on the web with rudimentary sidebar navigation. At the bottom, a "Click to Order" button for anyone who needs hard-copy with formatted lay-outs, graphics, etc ...