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RememberSchiff

Robert Gates new book: A Passion for Leadership

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You made a statement inferring that if the ban was lifted the millennials and their kids would correct the 40+ years of membership losses. Not only did this year's membership loss not go up, it DOUBLED the last year's number!!! So, you can hide behind words like "change" and throw out epithets like "intellectual superiority" when someone is pointing out facts, but what you are doing is merely what the Obama administration has done for seven years. You are trying to fit YOUR view of the world by obfuscating facts to fit your view. Fact: The ban was lifted. Fact: Membership CONTINUES to go down. Fact: Millennials are NOT joining Scouts in the record numbers (or in any large number). So much for change.

 

I'm not talking about today. I'm not talking about tomorrow. I'm talking about 5-10 years years from now. Only time will prove if my theory is correct. You are putting lots of words in my mouth, you should not do that. It's called creating a straw man argument, and it doesn't help anything. 

 

I actually never used the word change in my first post. You are again putting words in my mouth and you should stop doing that. I also didn't mention the Obama administration, nor am I a supporter of him. Now you are incorrectly stereotyping me, and attributing traits to me that I may or may not have. This is a dangerous assumption as well. 

 

You are pointing out a statistical fact on membership decline, and you are one hundred percent correct. 

 

Allow me to place my own Facts.

 

Fact one: Millennials are not joining Scouts as an 11 year old anymore. A millennial is somebody born between 1980-2000. The youngest millennials are 15 or 16 right now.  A millennial cannot be 11 years old. 

 

Fact two: A Millennial born in 1980 is 36.

 

Fact three: A Millennial is between ages 15-36.

 

Fact four: In 2013 the average age a woman had a child was at age 26.

 

Fact five: If today's 36 year old millennial had a child at age 26, that child would be 10 years old today. 

 

Fact six: because of fact five, most millennials who have kids have kids of cub scout age. 

 

Fact 7: In 2013 the youngest millennials were 12-13. 

 

Fact 8: per the BSA. "Teens first read the current Boy Scouts of America membership and leadership requirements prohibiting open homosexuals from being Scouts or adult leaders. Fifty-seven percent of general population teens opposed the current policy; 38 percent strongly opposed this policy. Similarly, 56 percent of Boy Scouts and Venturers opposed the policy, with 42 percent strongly opposing it. Fifty-eight percent of past Scouts and Venturers oppose the current policy, with 31 percent strongly opposing."

 

in short, current scouts, millennials, opposed the membership standards of barring homosexuals.

 

Fact 9: Parents in the US oppose the ban. Current BSA parents approved of it. 

"Parents now oppose the policy by 45 percent to 42 percent, in stark contrast to 2010, when they supported it by 58 percent to 29 percent. Parents of current Scouts continue to support the policy, but only by 48 percent to 39 percent (down from 57 percent to 29 percent in 2010). The effect of the policy has also shifted toward the negative, with parents saying it makes them less likely to enroll their son by 23 percent to 22 percent (in 2010, it made them more likely to do so by 30 percent to 15 percent)."

 

My conclusion: Older Americans (including current BSA parents) are more likely to support the ban. Younger adults and millennials are likely to oppose the ban. The BSA is making what it perceives to be the best move for the future, even if it's going to accelerate it's decline today. The trends are shifting. There is no denying it. Opinions are not snapshots frozen in time. More people support homosexual equality than they did 10 years ago. 

 

While current BSA parents support the ban, they will be leaving the BSA as their children age out in the next 4-5 years. Those millennials? They'll be having cub scout aged kids. And they don't support the ban.

 

So you have a product that your current customer loves, but has a very dwindling opportunity for growth and has been declining for years with the gay ban in place, do you make the change and hunt future customers, knowing that you'll take a hit today? Or do you cling tightly to your current customers and go down with the ship?

 

 

 You can read the report here. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/MembershipStandards/310-561_WB.pdf

 

You are prioritizing current parents and membership. I'm playing the long game. (I'm not currently a parent, I'm also about smack in the middle of the Millennial generation at 22. 

 

Our bias on the issue are not going to allow us to agree on the solution. Regardless of what the BSA chose, somebody would be unhappy. 

 

This situation sucks all around, the BSA needs to get out of the culture wars. 

 

Sentinel947

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in short, current scouts, millennials, opposed the membership standards of barring homosexuals.

 

No. The survey did not survey current scouts. The survey did not ask if they were scouts. You cannot say "current scouts" are opposed to the ban UNLESS you survey the current scouts.

 

You missed a fact: Parents 26-38 are not registering to be leaders in activities at the same rate that their peers, when they were in that age group, were active. In other words, that age group is less active in volunteerism for their kids than were previous generations.

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No. The survey did not survey current scouts. The survey did not ask if they were scouts. You cannot say "current scouts" are opposed to the ban UNLESS you survey the current scouts.

 

You missed a fact: Parents 26-38 are not registering to be leaders in activities at the same rate that their peers, when they were in that age group, were active. In other words, that age group is less active in volunteerism for their kids than were previous generations.

"Similarly, 56 percent of Boy Scouts and Venturers opposed the policy, with 42 percent strongly opposing it. Fifty-eight percent of past Scouts and Venturers oppose the current policy, with 31 percent strongly opposing."

 

What else can that be other than current Scouts and Venturers?

Edited by Sentinel947

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"Similarly, 56 percent of Boy Scouts and Venturers opposed the policy, with 42 percent strongly opposing it. Fifty-eight percent of past Scouts and Venturers oppose the current policy, with 31 percent strongly opposing."

 

What else can that be other than current Scouts and Venturers?

 

Who's poll? What was the sample size?

 

Did you miss BSA's own poll where the majority of scouters opposed the policy change?

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Who's poll? What was the sample size?

 

Did you miss BSA's own poll where the majority of scouters opposed the policy change?

I provided a link to the poll. 

 

I also did not miss the BSA's poll on current Scouters. I also cited it. 

 

Did you even read my post? It's number 31. 

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We live in a polarized society.  You's either fer it or you's agin it, there ain't no middlin' ground fer ya ta stand on.

 

We will stand and argue until we're all Smurfs and it accomplishes nothing.

 

Compromise is a four-letter word with a few extra letters.

 

There's a whole generation out there (label it anything you want) that has no skills in conflict management, diplomacy, or even tact.

 

Adding those kinds of real issues to the Citizenship MB's would make them thicker than Thin Mint Girl Scout cookies and it wouldn't make a bit of difference because the boys don't read the book anyway.

 

Your mileage may vary.

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http://www.theeagle.com/news/local/former-defense-secretary-robert-gates-explains-leadership-as-a-matter/article_ab9df5ab-4f4f-5553-8060-04be58bb302e.html

 

Former Defense Secretary Robert Gates said his first leadership role was as a patrol leader of a Boy Scout troop in Kansas many years ago.

 

He said nothing teaches leadership skills like trying to get a bunch of 11- and 12-year-old boys to do what you tell them to do -- especially when you're only a year older than they are.

...

Gates said there were two aspects to his book. The first is to give a practical approach on how to lead change in a bureaucratic environment -- how to delegate authority, empower people and hold people accountable for performance.

 

The other side of the book, he said, are techniques for how to deal with stakeholders, community members, alumni, athletics fans -- all the people who have influence in the affairs of an organization.

 

He also discusses the personal leadership characteristics he believes are necessary for someone who intends to lead change.

 

Gates drew a distinction between leadership and management. He said education can make someone a good manager, which every organization needs, but it's hard to teach good leadership traits.

 

"If you don't like people, if you don't respect people, if you think you're superior to other people, you're not going to be a good leader," he said. "It is a matter of the heart, it is how you look at other people -- can you empathize, can you motivate, can you inspire? I think those are hard things to teach."

Edited by RememberSchiff

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There's a whole generation out there (label it anything you want) that has no skills in conflict management, diplomacy, or even tact.

That's hardly limited to millenials though. Look at our current crop of presidential candidates!
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In the latest edition of Scouting Magazine Robert Gates was lauded as the great savior of the current BSA.  

The quote that really made me raise my eyebrows was "that BSA is the finest organization for building character.....and live their lives based on the principles of the Scout Oath and Law.

 

I would have to ask Mr. Surbaugh how he defines character regarding Sec. Gates actions while the National President.  I would argue that Sec. Gates bullied the membership of this organization into accepting his view of how this organization should look.  He sacrificed the innocence of the youth in this organization for financial support from large corporations who also bully those who don't walk in lock step with their social agenda ideas.   

 

It shows no respect for parents who don't want to have BSA character taught by some leaders that at the same time may be grooming their children to grow into young adults that may be gender confused and or become a child that is seduced by a leader

 

It appears that the next National President will continue down the same path that Sec. Gates started this new organization on.  I find it an interesting use of words that Mr. Surbaugh chose.  The term "lock step" is very telling of his attitude and I don't believe it was used inadvertently.  I think he is sending a message to those who have dissented with Sec. Gates decision to shut up or move on because it won't change with the new National President. 

 

Sec. Gates repealed DADT to help military readiness and unit cohesion, or was he bullying the military into another politically correct experiment?

Sec. Gates created a new progressive, "inclusive' (except for those who disagree, see North Carolina) organization that teaches some kind of character and to live by most of the Scout Oath, or was he just being a bully?

 

I would encourage leaders to show compassion towards those that are heading down a path of personal self destruction and not tell young people that their behavior is ok and that is just who you are.  We do no service to young people when we don't warn them about behaviors that are destructive to themselves and others.  Character comes from caring about others more than yourself.   

 

I am moving on from this organization.  How can true character and integrity be taught by an organization that has to change a policy that a large part of the membership disagrees with?

BSA does not have a lock on teaching character or outdoor skills.

I would encourage those that disagree with Sec. Gates and the newest National President to march in lock step out of this organization.

 

Is the next National President going to usher in gender neutral bathrooms or adult leaders sleeping in the same tents as scouts?

Where does this diversity, inclusiveness, all things are ok experiment finally end up?  

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Where does this diversity, inclusiveness, all things are ok experiment finally end up?  

 

When all kids who want to be scouts are allowed to be scouts.

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When all kids who want to be scouts are allowed to be scouts.

Of the 30k members lost, one wonders how many want to be scouts?

(Yes, that numerical reality is pitted against the estimated losses if the state's DA of NY shut down every scout camp for equal employment violations.)

Edited by qwazse
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