The Seven Methods Of Scouting

[TAHAWK 1420]

Here is the response from a Scouter who works for National - the Eagle son of an Eagle Scoutmaster and father of three Eagles:

 

"Wayne is talking about the overall methods of the Scouting movement in the US.  They are modified slightly in each phase of the program to meet the delivery of that program.  Cub Scouting has seven methods, Boy Scouting has eight, and Venturing has seven.  But they are generally the same, perhaps in a different order or in the case of Boy Scouting one is split into two.

 

The eight Boy Scouting methods have been the same for as long as I can remember.  I recall a change from â€œadult male association†to â€œadult association†in the 80s.  Cub Scouting is dropping an eighth because of the move to the Scout Oath and Law in June."

 

So we still have something to work towards.

 

""Unless the patrol method is in operation, you don’t really have a Boy Scout troop.â€

 

Edited April 20, 2015 by TAHAWK

[Stosh 3452]

I so totally agree with that statement.

 

But I also emphasize adult association is not the same as adult-led.  This method is abused as much as the patrol method... well they all take their hit at one time or another.  

 

If the methods were emphasized as much as the Oath and Law, I'm thinking a lot of our problems would simply go away.

[TAHAWK 1420]

"Adult Association" means being around men who model the values of Scouting.  That method does not speak to who directly leads the patrol and troop.  The "Patrol" method speaks to that topic.  The Scouts lead.  The adults train them in leadership and act as resources, coaches, counselors, and mentors.

 

But you clearly know.

 

Now what could BSA do if the Patrol Method  it was actually important to BSA?  There are bright people there.  I am sure they could come up with something - say in the form of positive recognition.

 

Here's a semantical start:  the word "leader" to be used in official literature for the Scout and Venturing programs  to refer only to youth, an adult in those programs to  be called a "Scouter."   This change would, among other things, replace the current BSA practice of referring to a Scoutmaster as "the unit leader."

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Here is the response from a Scouter who works for National - the Eagle son of an Eagle Scoutmaster and father of three Eagles:

 

"Wayne is talking about the overall methods of the Scouting movement in the US.  They are modified slightly in each phase of the program to meet the delivery of that program.  Cub Scouting has seven methods, Boy Scouting has eight, and Venturing has seven.  But they are generally the same, perhaps in a different order or in the case of Boy Scouting one is split into two.[/size]

In that case, I think "Wayne" was just being careless with his language, and with the facts. Uniforming is not a method of Venturing. Otherwise, as I said above, my conclusion would have been exactly what you were told by the person who works at National: That this was just an attempt to state the methods of the three programs in one list. But, as indicated by comments here and under the statement itself, the way he said it caused at least some concern that a change is coming, when it isn't.

[Stosh 3452]

NJCubScouter, I wish I could share in your optimism, but I have found out over the years that any time one stirs the pot, what they are really doing is testing the waters to see if there's anything that's going to get stirred up enough to define the action as a really bad idea.  If nothing comes of it, the change is made and they have dodged the bullet.  If not, the can always throw up their hands and say it was just a test.  Under these circumstances it is always better to speak up and make oneself heard rather than sit back and be an assumed tacit approver.

[Stosh 3452]

"Adult Association" means being around men who model the values of Scouting.  That method does not speak to who directly leads the patrol and troop.  The "Patrol" method speaks to that topic.  The Scouts lead.  The adults train them in leadership and act as resources, coaches, counselors, and mentors.

 

But you clearly know.

 

Now what could BSA do if the Patrol Method  it was actually important to BSA?  There are bright people there.  I am sure they could come up with something - say in the form of positive recognition.

 

Here's a semantical start:  the word "leader" to be used in official literature for the Scout and Venturing programs  to refer only to youth, an adult in those programs to  be called a "Scouter."   This change would, among other things, replace the current BSA practice of referring to a Scoutmaster as "the unit leader."

 

In terms of semantics, one can also see the flaw in the inappropriate use of certain terms.

 

BSA thinks the SM is the unit leader.

 

If certain words are synonymous with each other the SM could also be the unit manager.  But somehow that doesn't bode well.

 

If the boys are to lead the troop, does that mean they just manage or is there more to it than just that.

 

Adviser?  Well Venturing snagged that one, so we can't duplicate because it would cause confusion like Venturing and Venture Scouts.

 

If words convey ideas, just what is it that BSA is trying to say so we know what's going on.

 

Sometimes I wonder how much of the stuff coming out of national is nothing more than political lip-service.

[TAHAWK 1420]

NJCS,  I would never forget carelessness as a possible explanation.  In fact, "careless" is polite.  Look at the January Scouting article that endorsed the Adult-run troop method when a troop's experiment with Boy Scouting did not produce the well-oiled machine.  

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Stosh, I am seldom accused of optimism, but I guess that next to you, it might look that way sometimes. The sky does seem to be falling on a regular basis in your neck of the woods. In this case I would say my comments are more cynical than they are optimistic. It was evident from the statement itself that this was not a well-considered policy statement, it was just something posted on the Internet, where a lot of people seem to think being a little careless is ok. He didn't even mention advancement (Boy Scout method) or recognition (Venturing method), instead wrapping it all up (including "personal growth") into very vague corporate-speak, "goal setting and achievement." But nobody here thought he was thinking of getting rid of the advancement system in Boy Scouts. (In fact I understand that "Scout", which used to just be a "badge", is about to become a "rank", so they don't seem to be moving away from the advancement system.)

 

My other cynical thought is that when the BSA makes a significant change, one they know is going to draw some opposition, they generally do it for one of two reasons: Either it will bring in more revenue, or it will advance some "internal political interest." Or both. An example of the first is STEM Scouts. As others have said, schools and organizations like FIRST (robotics, mostly) can probably do a better job at STEM, but the BSA sees a chance to collect $150 a head (part of which will cover costs, but not all of it, especially since they are looking for CO's, so the facilities will be free). An example of the second is the new requirement to discuss Duty to God in SM conferences. I have no doubt that some pretty powerful people within the BSA were pushing for that, otherwise it wouldn't happen. But it isn't going to put any money in anyone's pocket to do away with the patrol method, nor is there any political force within the BSA that wants to see that happen, so it isn't going to happen.

 

I think my cynicism beats your pessimism.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

NJCS,  I would never forget carelessness as a possible explanation.  In fact, "careless" is polite.  Look at the January Scouting article that endorsed the Adult-run troop method when a troop's experiment with Boy Scouting did not produce the well-oiled machine.

TAHAWK, you and I do not agree on many things it seems, but one thing we do agree on is that the BSA does a poor job at communicating with "the field." This would be another example.

[Stosh 3452]

Yep, that explanation satisfies the double-standard of homosexuality in the BSA program now that changes have been unilaterally made to satisfy the financial and political dynamics of the program.  

 

Yep, we'll give you your Eagle so you can put that on your resume, but you'll never be able to be an adult leader in the program.

 

Maybe my reality trumps your idealism.  

[Gone 435]

NJCubScouter, I wish I could share in your optimism, but I have found out over the years that any time one stirs the pot, what they are really doing is testing the waters to see if there's anything that's going to get stirred up enough to define the action as a really bad idea.  If nothing comes of it, the change is made and they have dodged the bullet.  If not, the can always throw up their hands and say it was just a test.  Under these circumstances it is always better to speak up and make oneself heard rather than sit back and be an assumed tacit approver.

 

Wouldn't they first send out a survey THEN ignore it if it was important?

[TAHAWK 1420]

The bureaucratic tactic is to send out a survey then ignore it if you do not like the results. 

[Stosh 3452]

Gee, you guys sound as cynical as I am.