CNYScouter 46 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 A change in our monthly activity is needed for May and a canoe trip is being considered One of the routes being looked at is on the Erie (Barge) canal. It is flat water with an extremely small current. There are 2 Locks on the proposed route. They do allow canoes/kayaks (and with no costs) to go through the locks. Commercial traffic is allowed on the canal but it is very rarely seen on this part of it. One concern is that Scouts in the troop are very inexperienced at canoeing. I am not sure if any of them have canoeing Merit Badge and most of them have never been in a canoe before. The Troop as a whole are not strong swimmers. The question is do you portage around the Locks or allow the Scout to go through the locks in Canoes/Kayaks? I have been through locks before in a boat but never in a canoe/kayak. Link to post Share on other sites
perdidochas 658 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I don't know the nature of those particular locks, but my gut tells me that portaging is a better option for inexperienced canoers. Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Locks can be tricky, I canoe and kayak on a regular basis and have never gone through a lock. It is far easier and quicker to portage. It would be a good idea if someone who knew the basic strokes to come in and do a seminar on paddling, what happens when you dump, etc. but I wouldn't think it would need to be at the MB level, but it might cut down on the pin-ball effect of bouncing off one shore just to bounce off the other. It speeds up the trip, too. Stosh Link to post Share on other sites
scoutldr 732 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I know you have considered this, CNY, but for others who may be reading, make sure that the "Safety Afloat" requirements in the Guide to Safe Scouting have been factored in. Your statement that the troop are not "strong swimmers" is concerning. Link to post Share on other sites
T2Eagle 902 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 One thing to be aware of if you have inexperienced canoeists is to not get overly ambitious in how far you can travel in a day. Scouts. or anyone else, who aren't proficient will travel twice the listed distance because they will not keep the boat heading straight and will be back and forth across the water constantly, especially if there is any wind. Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 It sounded like CNYScouter did his homework on this trip. Canal (calm water, narrow route, can''t get lost), slight current due to lock leakage, He avoided fast current, open lake winds, and a number of other "problems" for first timers. While I haven't done an canal canoeing, it sounded like a safe enough area that if they did tip over, the swim to shore would be no problem. Open lake with off shore wind could make for quite a swim on a tip. The only reason I recommended a portage rather than taking the locks is that there are ropes and water level changes that can easily capsize the canoes inside the lock if someone tied off or hung on too long, got tangled, etc. It's not just the scouts doing stupid things either, someone with a 14' runabout having trouble next to a 8' kayak could spell a lot of problems with everyone being too close in a lock. Experienced boaters in a lock is not a problem, newbie might be. Personally, I find that portaging is no big deal and other than a twisted ankle, it's within the realm of newbies to handle. Stosh Link to post Share on other sites
koolaidman 110 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Can we post now. Below is what I was going to reply with yesterday. Everyone has made good points. We just had a recent experience with our troop that would make me reconsider a canoe trip with inexperienced canoers. (is that a word?) We had two scouts in a canoe that had completed the canoeing merit badge at summer camp that absolutely could not canoe in a straight line for more than 5 yards. Ahh... we had lofty plans and ambitions to make a six mile route, but we didn't make it out of the cove. Their canoe kept going in circles and the boys weren't taking instruction very well. The wind wasn't helping us much, but we scouters did learn from it. Luckily our outing wasn't dependent upon a successful canoe trip. We chalked it up to fun times. My thoughts: What Stosh said. Basic Strokes, seminar on paddling. If you have any doubts, do a trial canoe exercise on a small lake. If some scouts can't handle the canoe, if they can't follow your directions, they can't go. Safety is at stake here. Also make sure your adults have the required BSA training. Don't skimp here. Definitely bring along one of those rescue ropes in a bag. Or a regular rope... Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Every year I do whitewater canoeing on a shallow but fast river. I always take block and tackle throw cushion and rope for emergency rescue along with wearing a sheath knife and belt ax. Had CNYScouter done the lock through with his scouts, I would recommend the knife and axe because of the water changes and existence of ropes that can tangle. I do insist that an experienced canoeist take the rear seat and any newbies take the front. The canoe needs the weight in the front to hold the front down. That way the boy can actually be helpful. Been doing this for 25+ years, but I always take very experienced adults along as well. Newbie parents sit in the front of the canoe.... CNYScouter does not have the luxury of experience on his side, but he seems to have thought it through and has a great opportunity for this boys to "get their feet wet" with watercraft. Stosh Link to post Share on other sites
SSScout 1616 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Play the "What If..." game. ALOT. Do it with the boys and with the adults. What MIGHT happen? EVERYONE passes the First Class swim test. No exceptions. PLC and Adults do the Safety Afloat online class, do it together, multiple laptops! Find a Canoeing MB Counselor and do a few strokes and rescues in an indoor pool (most will let you do this stuff early in the morning before they open to the public with CLEAN boats. ) After this easy float , most of your boys will be ready to pass the Canoeing MB. Go slow and listen to the birds..... Bring lots of drinking water, dry bags for the lunches and dry clothes and towels. Knee pads. Hats. Don't bring anything you can't do without when it goes overboard (cameras? Cellphones? Ipads?) Lash everything in, even in flat water. Learn the good habits first thing. ZIplock bags. Maps and charts in Ziplock bags. Have fun! Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle94-A1 2687 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 We did a canoe trip last year. this is what we did. 1) Swim tests for all. 2) 3 or 4 meeting to work on strokes, how to pack, etc. 3) Picked a nice, easygoing river to go on. 4) One of the ASMs went and check it out the week before the trip 5) TRIP TIME! Only complication was that it rained the week between the ASM's scouting expedition and the trip itself. The island we wre suppose to sleep on was underwater Link to post Share on other sites
CNYScouter 46 Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 I can't take the credit for" doing my homework" as I was just asked my opinion about the route and going through the locks It doesn't look like the planned route is going to work. This was going to be a 5 or 6 mile trip down the canal, visit Fort Stanwix in Rome, NY and canoe back It's more like 15 or 16 miles each way with the Fort being well over a mile inland from the takeout point. The closest points on the canal we can put in at are 9+ miles away in either direction These locks are both a 25' drop and a pretty long portage around Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I can't take the credit for" doing my homework" as I was just asked my opinion about the route and going through the locks It doesn't look like the planned route is going to work. This was going to be a 5 or 6 mile trip down the canal, visit Fort Stanwix in Rome, NY and canoe back It's more like 15 or 16 miles each way with the Fort being well over a mile inland from the takeout point. The closest points on the canal we can put in at are 9+ miles away in either direction These locks are both a 25' drop and a pretty long portage around Sounds like an arduous journey. Good to take a pass on it for novice canoeists. NEVER plan a trip up-river, the boys will hate you forever. Long portage? In the BWCA I once had a 3 mile portage. Needless to say, the trip was a loop so I didn't need to go back over it on the way home. Find two access points with no locks between. Dump water craft on upper landing. Shuttle a vehicle down to the lower landing. Canoe down, shuttle back to vehicles and pick up at lower landing. The only "trip" with no shuttling would be a loop around a moderate sized lake, staying close to shore with newbies. Shuttling is a way of life for a canoeist. Stosh Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now