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eagle90

TWO MORE CAMPS BITE THE DUST

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Having read this "Market study" in depth a few months ago, I think it is germane to point out that out of 22 camps rated, the HIGHEST grade for any camp was a B-.   When the summariews are read, more time is spent on giving a dissertation on what type of fish are in the camp lake or river than what programs and facilities are offered. 

 

Why let the helicopter parents of a wussy generation ruin it for those who enjoy a week in the rustic woods, cooking your own food, sleeping under the stars.

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We go out of council for adventure. Other reasons are program, facilities, staff, travel and cost.

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I read recently that Bayport Scout Reservation is in danger of being closed.

On the Bayport Facebook page, there is discussion about the council (CVC) going through financial difficulties due to the expense of the camp.

Sad.

My understanding was that they sold Camp Chickohomony (in Williamsburg-high real estate value) and took the profits to purchase and develop Bayport.

Losing Bayport would be quite a loss.

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We have successfully raised $95,000 since July 12th the key here is to expand your offering beyond just Boy Scouts and you need to market your facilities well.

 

www.BPNorthwoods.org

 

We have a plan in place to improve attendance, and to increase camp profits, this is just a start to improving the facilities.

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I wonder if camp closures have anything to do with the value of the property?

 

Is there a urban encroachment?

Is it in a popular vacation area?

 

If any of those 2 are yes then I think many times scout leaders see dollar signs dangled in front of them. I know they did this with girl scouts because they had several camps close, partly because real estate developers wanted the land. Also didnt they have a camp on a popular east coast island that was closed? There is a spot a few miles away that I know used to be a Nazarene Youth camp and another that was by Campfire.

 

Really "camps" in general are getting mighty rare. So many church and other youth camps have closed and for the same reasons. Urban encroachment and/or being in a popular tourist spot.

 

To get around this camps have to be made more profitable. Market the facilities and programs to outside groups. Their is a facility called Windermere Baptist conference center which does this.

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Our Council recently sold two camps.  One was used for our Webelos resident camp, the other was used mainly for unit and district events.  The justification was needing more money to improve the camps they aren't selling.  I'm not sure either of these properties was particularly valuable.  One I believe was split between the neighbors on either side.  The other I heard was sold to a group of hunters.  I suspect that one reason that camp was picked was because it's lake is spring fed, and with the water table in that part of our state dropping, so have the water levels in the lakes.  If something isn't done to stop it, soon the camp could find itself without a usable lake.  If I were going to pick one property to sell, that would be the one.

 

To replace the Webelos resident camp, they are carving out an undeveloped portion of one of our Boy Scout camps.  They are building a new dining hall and campsites.  The dining hall was originally not going to have a kitchen, but then they thought about being able to rent the property to outside groups for events, and with a kitchen they can pull in more money renting out the dining hall out of season.  It's this type of thing that I think our camps should do more of. 

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@@SpEdScouter ,

 

It can be a combination of factors. I know the council I grew up in sold the original camp because of urban encroachment and the camp was too small because property owners who use to let the Scouts tramp about sold the property and the new owners said no more. What I fin ironic is that the camp was created in the 1920s, and the closest town started expanding after the 1950s. The new neighbors began complaining about the noise, traffic, etc of having a camp as their next door neighbor. Thankfully the council purchased property that was 3+ times the size of the original camp.

 

But I admit, I'm concerned, especially about the local camp in my district. The property around the camp is being sold off. In the past 10 years, 3 MacMansions have arisen, and a popular hiking trail that we had access to was closed off by the new property owners. And not everyone has heard that yet as it is that recent! My understanding is that a trust owns the property, so it cannot  be sold. But one SE so neglected the camp, that the only reason it was able to survive was because of individual units and OA chapters investing in it and doing repairs and maintenance. Over a 10 year period, the OA chapter alone spent $10-$12,000 alone on supplies to maintain the camp. And that doesn't include all the man-hours involved, or what local units did. Under the new NCAP program, I don't know what will happen.

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Is it really the end of the world to not have your own camp? I mean what really is the purpose to have a separate facility to go back to year after year? I guess the obvious is so they can earn merit badges but those can be earned at any time or place. Our scouts earn 3-5 every summer which is about the same amount they earn in a weekend event. Yes it is nice to have a facility already set up for say rifle range or waterfront so Scouts can work on those merit badges but they can do those at other facilities like the one I mentioned above. Is it a kind of ego thing to have "OUR" camp?

 

Looking at the discussions on this site some have said their troops dont even always go back to scout camp every year and instead, use that time for a week long trip.

 

To be honest I wish our tropp didnt go back to the same camp year after year because it would free up the scouts to plan more. Heck they could go to a different scout camp every year.

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The demand for up-to-date everything including BSA Spa and Resort facilities have priced many out of the market.  It's a lot easier and cheaper to run a commissary than a mess hall, permanent shelters vs. rain flies, tents with floors, flush toilets, running water at each site, WIFI, and the list goes on......

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The demand for up-to-date everything including BSA Spa and Resort facilities have priced many out of the market.  It's a lot easier and cheaper to run a commissary than a mess hall, permanent shelters vs. rain flies, tents with floors, flush toilets, running water at each site, WIFI, and the list goes on......

 

While I agree with you, some of these things are mandated by the various states and feds. And yes, some are mandated by BSA.

 

@SpecEdScouter

 

Having a camp means having a guaranteed place for events like camporee, training, day camps, etc.  There is a local facility that's a lot closer than the camp in my district, 5 minutes away compared to 25 minutes. The 5 minute camp is more primitive and has less faciltiies, so it's great for a lot of things. BUT we are subject to the owners. Currently they shut it down while the main facility, not the camp, undergoes renovations and construction. The camp is being used for storage.

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While I agree with you, some of these things are mandated by the various states and feds. And yes, some are mandated by BSA.

 

 

Which ones are mandated by state and federal laws?

 

Which ones are mandated by BSA?

 

Which ones mandated by BSA are destroying their own camps?

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Gents---I am working on my next WWI project and looking for info on these three National Guard Camps--letters, pictures, uniforms etc. If you can help me out with some copies of your stuff, I will credit you in the captions and list you in the acknowledgements as a contributor.

Regards and best for the New year,

Al

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@@Georgekap  Welcome to the forum!

 

Sorry George, but not enough information came through on your post.  What three camps?

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Camps are closing due to lack of campers.  The merger here resulted in all three camps being kept open as the traffic is there to justify all three.  Two are in great shape and one needs $50,000 to bring it up to great shape.  The money is there,

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