LDS?????

[acco40]

When I got married (to a good Catholic girl ), the priest wanted to know where she was baptized (what church) and when. I asked him if he needed that information from me and he paused for a second and then politely replied - you are Christian, correct? I replied in the affirmative and that is all they needed to know. Major point - I was either Catholic or "other." Hey, I knew what I was getting into.

[Builder]

When I got married (to a good Catholic girl ), the priest wanted to know where she was baptized (what church) and when. I asked him if he needed that information from me and he paused for a second and then politely replied - you are Christian, correct? I replied in the affirmative and that is all they needed to know. Major point - I was either Catholic or "other." Hey, I knew what I was getting into.

I guess I can update (upgrade?) my status to "heathen other"

[Pack18Alex]

It's not an option. Jewish law prohibits establishing a new structure during the Sabbath. So the tent needs to be up before Shabbat starts. Can't cook on the Sabbath, food has to be cooked before hand (or started just before and left to cook overnight, which is how our lunch is made. We have the gear to do it, and the plans on how to do it. The Jewish Committee is planning adult training to take place during our Kinnus (Jewish Campout, Hebrew for gathering), so we can get people trained during Sunday (and some training that is more discussion based can take place on Saturday).

 

The rule is pretty unbendable in Jewish law. So you have to get the sites up. It also meant we couldn't repair guy lines that kids tripped on, so we got docked points at camporee, oh well.

NeverAnEagle, well, it seems daunting, but we do it every week at home, the only difference here is: 1: propane instead of electric, and 2: no open flames.

 

Last year with Camp Card Sales we bought ourselves a Camp Oven that we're excited to use this fall. Basically, we'll precook a stew on Friday at the campsite (brown the meat/vegetables, add seasoning, fill with water), then transfer to covered tins to put in the oven. The oven will be adjusted to run at around 250-300 degrees and run over night. In Yiddish, it's called a Chullent, in Hebrew, Hamin (hot food). In our house, we put food up in a Slow Cooker/Crock Pot. It is customary Jewish practice to serve hot food on Shabbat.

 

Previously, we had a big "oven" called a Pig Roaster, where we through all the warm food on, covered it in unlit and lit coals, and it slowly burned over the night and stayed hot. This is fine from a Jewish perspective, but created a BSA safety issue, so we bought the oven.

 

Our Campout meal schedule is generally: Friday night Shabbat dinner, Saturday Breakfast, milk/cereal/berries (cold breakfast), Saturday Lunch - Shabbat Lunch (stew, vegetables, fruit), Saturday Dinner - Shabbat Seudah Shlishit (cold meal, usually tuna fish, egg salad, etc). Saturday Evening: Malava Malka (hot dairy is ideal, we end up with a snack + hot chocolate), Sunday morning Brunch (french toast, scrambled eggs/omelet, cereal, berries, etc). Break camp. If we add a Sunday lunch, we'll do American Grilling (hotdogs, hamburgers, chicken breast).

 

What makes it "easy" is that we have Shomer Shabbat leaders who are problem solvers, so we've worked out the issues. For the kids from non-observant homes, other than the candle lighting on Friday, and the Grape Juice/Challah on Friday night/Saturday lunch, and Havdalah (spice ritual ending Shabbat), they don't really notice much going on, because we plan activities around the Shabbat schedule. Sports, hiking, nature walks on Saturday, we do our lashing/knot tying Friday afternoon, and if we want to go Fishing, etc., we'll do it Sunday morning.

 

There are rules governing carrying on Shabbat, but we stay in fenced in parks for our Campouts which means our Rabbinic approval for fenced in.

 

The observant moms freak out about the lack of electricity, the non-observant families find the whole thing terrifying, then we go and have a wonderful time and everyone is thrilled.

 

Oh, and everyone either uses disposable dishes for dairy (to separate meat from dairy), or has two mess kits (like my family does). I was VERY proud of the three bin washing station I built with inter-changable tubs for meat and dairy.

 

If you have a Crock Pot (or pick one up for $20-$35), try cooking a stew one week. Friday afternoon, brown/season everything, throw it in, cover it with water, and cook it on low overnight. Technically for Jewish law you remove the crockery before serving, but I think you'll find that you can make a delicious meal. There is something EXTREMELY relaxing about waking up Saturday morning, feeding my kids a healthy but cold breakfast, taking them to Synagogue, then coming home to a meal that requires no more work than chopping up a salad.

 

We learned to do it for Shabbat, but my wife and I slow cook meals 3-5 times a week. We both work, and it was great to come home and have nothing more to do than put up a pot of rice (or get a rice cooker) and chop a salad and have a serious family dinner on say, a Tuesday!

[Pack18Alex]

I think the main issue is not the religion but to Scouters who are not members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) they view Mormons as participating in the BSA. To many Mormons, they see folks who are not part of their religion as participating in their youth program. Their youth program and the BSA are one in the same but viewed through a different lens.

"When I was growing up our public schools had off on certain Jewish holidays (Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashanah). I believe this is still the case in that school district. On the other hand, "minor" Catholic holidays (e.g. Ascension, Immaculate Conception, Ash Wednesday, etc.) were never school holidays despite the large number of Catholics among the student body."

 

Rosh Hashana is a two day holiday. The first day was off, but we all took off the second day. Meanwhile, Sukkot and Passover are major week long festivals (with major restrictions on the beginning and end of the holiday), with restrictions on where you can eat (Sukkot) and what you can eat (Passover).

 

I'm using Christian as short-hand for non-Catholic, non-Mormon Christians, because Protestant is a more loaded term.

 

In terms of "holidays off" let's see:

Christmas Eve

Christmas Day (national holiday)

New Years Day (Feast of the Circumcision)

Good Friday (state holiday here, schools closed, normally Spring Break)

Easter (is on a Sunday, Spring Break usually accomodates being able to travel to family for Easter)

 

The entire week of Christmas to New Years, with Christmas Eve off as well, is off and the country is basically shut down. America's National Holiday of Thanksgiving is the kickoff to the "Christmas Season."

 

I absolutely LOVE how accommodating American society is to our melting pot of cultures. However, if you are in the 80%+ of Americans from a Western Church perspective, you don't realize how Christian-centric the American culture is.

 

The country is VERY Protestant in its culture. Catholics and Protestants have tremendous overlap, so Catholic accomodations are minor in comparison. Contrast that with Jews (with our Solar/Lunar Calendar) or Muslims (with a Lunar Calendar), and you'll see how different things look.

 

This past summer Olympic Games overlapped with Ramaden, so you had competitors from Muslim countries fasting and trying to compete. You'd NEVER schedule the winter Olympic Games to take place on Christmas Day.

[qwazse]

When I got married (to a good Catholic girl ), the priest wanted to know where she was baptized (what church) and when. I asked him if he needed that information from me and he paused for a second and then politely replied - you are Christian, correct? I replied in the affirmative and that is all they needed to know. Major point - I was either Catholic or "other." Hey, I knew what I was getting into.

Technically, "heathen" refers to the Scottish "people of the heath" who used to raid Roman settlements for food. So I guess it depends on how often you go to an Italian restaurant and order in a brogue accent.

[NeverAnEagle]

When I got married (to a good Catholic girl ), the priest wanted to know where she was baptized (what church) and when. I asked him if he needed that information from me and he paused for a second and then politely replied - you are Christian, correct? I replied in the affirmative and that is all they needed to know. Major point - I was either Catholic or "other." Hey, I knew what I was getting into.

Ironically, the word Pagan as used by the Romans meant people who worshiped outside, rather than in the temples. I laugh every Easter when Christian get up very early to attend a Sun Rise Service somewhere out of doors; nothing like a Pagan Ceremony to start the day!

[Builder]

When I got married (to a good Catholic girl ), the priest wanted to know where she was baptized (what church) and when. I asked him if he needed that information from me and he paused for a second and then politely replied - you are Christian, correct? I replied in the affirmative and that is all they needed to know. Major point - I was either Catholic or "other." Hey, I knew what I was getting into.

@qwazse: I believe I have some Scotch heritage, definitely Irish, English, and Welsh. I just might have to try your suggestion. Hmm. There's an Italian restaurant about a mile from here. Must find my armorrrrr and sworrrrrd! (bad attempt at a written brogue...)

 

@NAE: Or set up Christmas Trees/wreaths/other greenery customs. For that matter Christmas Day is at the wrong time of year technically. My understanding is that the Roman Catholic Church decided to celebrate it around the Winter Solstice to accommodate existing "Pagan" traditions in various lands.

[Peregrinator]

When I got married (to a good Catholic girl ), the priest wanted to know where she was baptized (what church) and when. I asked him if he needed that information from me and he paused for a second and then politely replied - you are Christian, correct? I replied in the affirmative and that is all they needed to know. Major point - I was either Catholic or "other." Hey, I knew what I was getting into.

My understanding is that the Roman Catholic Church decided to celebrate it around the Winter Solstice to accommodate existing "Pagan" traditions in various lands.

 

Maybe this article will help correct your understanding:

http://www.touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=16-10-012-v

[Builder]

When I got married (to a good Catholic girl ), the priest wanted to know where she was baptized (what church) and when. I asked him if he needed that information from me and he paused for a second and then politely replied - you are Christian, correct? I replied in the affirmative and that is all they needed to know. Major point - I was either Catholic or "other." Hey, I knew what I was getting into.

Thanks for the link Peregrinator. Since I don't like to rely on just one source for my education (or reeducation in this case) I looked up a few more articles. Of the more recent and more scholarly (sources cited, etc.) articles, this one from last December bubbled to the top:

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/new-testament/how-december-25-became-christmas/

 

It kind of updates the article you link.

[NeverAnEagle]

When I got married (to a good Catholic girl ), the priest wanted to know where she was baptized (what church) and when. I asked him if he needed that information from me and he paused for a second and then politely replied - you are Christian, correct? I replied in the affirmative and that is all they needed to know. Major point - I was either Catholic or "other." Hey, I knew what I was getting into.

I've always figured Jesus's birth should be celebrated on April 15th, since that is Tax Day and Joseph & Mary were traveling to pay their taxes!

 

Historically and Agriculturally the date of May 20th makes a lot of sense. The shepherds were in the field watching their flocks by night, which would mean warm weather. If it were the dead of winter the flocks would be held in the fold. Ewe's lamb in March/April so that would place the date in the spring, rather than summer or fall.

 

The Greek holiday of Saturnalia was held from December 17 through December 23. It was a festival of light leading to the winter solstice. Later Roman Empire moved the "Birthday of the Unconquerable Sun," to December 25. Because being closer to the equator were not able to accurately time the solstice until the sun began to return. Northern Religions of the Celts and Germans place Yule (birth of the Sun) on December 21st because their astronomers were better able to predict the sun's final decent.

[Peregrinator]

When I got married (to a good Catholic girl ), the priest wanted to know where she was baptized (what church) and when. I asked him if he needed that information from me and he paused for a second and then politely replied - you are Christian, correct? I replied in the affirmative and that is all they needed to know. Major point - I was either Catholic or "other." Hey, I knew what I was getting into.

If it were the dead of winter the flocks would be held in the fold.

 

Palestine has a rather mild climate. Also the summer tends to be dry (most of the rain in Bethlehem falls in November, December, and January) so sheep would almost certainly not be in pasture at that time.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethlehem#Climate

 

Hope this helps.

[Basementdweller]

Again the conversation has fallen of the cliff.

 

OMG the US of A celebrates mostly Christian Holidays.........Wellllllll, Our founding fathers were, you guessed it, Christian. Most of the folks who immigrated here for the first two hundred years were, You guessed it right again, Christian.

 

If I lived in Egypt, I would not expect christmas to be a holiday nor Easter. Because their fore fathers were not christian.

 

 

Far as the LDS question goes......I was curious, Some folks just hate everyone because they are different. the LDS folks I know are decent, hardworking and stay to themselves. That is ok. Just don't understand the outrage I see written here from the Southeast and Northwest parts of our country.

[King Ding Dong]

Again the conversation has fallen of the cliff.

 

OMG the US of A celebrates mostly Christian Holidays.........Wellllllll, Our founding fathers were, you guessed it, Christian. Most of the folks who immigrated here for the first two hundred years were, You guessed it right again, Christian.

 

If I lived in Egypt, I would not expect christmas to be a holiday nor Easter. Because their fore fathers were not christian.

 

 

Far as the LDS question goes......I was curious, Some folks just hate everyone because they are different. the LDS folks I know are decent, hardworking and stay to themselves. That is ok. Just don't understand the outrage I see written here from the Southeast and Northwest parts of our country.

What outrage BD ? Please justify your accusations. I see no outrage against their beliefs. I see criticism of the way the program is administered by many of the units.

 

Some of our founding fathers were Christian, not all. One would be hard pressed to call Jefferson or Franklin "Christian".

[christineka]

I think it's sad that I am LDS, in an LDS chartered group, and our cub committee member expressed disdain for how the church runs scouts. What the LDS church has done is to take scouts and adapt it for a program that was already set in place. The LDS church looked at the ideals of scouting and found them to fit with the church's ideals for boys, so adapted the program. It is not the same as traditional scouting, but I don't see how that part really matters- it just makes things more difficult with kids coming and going at different times of the year.

The adult staffing is problematic. People are called to be scout leaders, instead of volunteering themselves. These volunteers are supposed to "do their best", but often the called leaders don't want to be leaders, yet they accept the position anyway, and then the boys suffer. It's really frustrating. (Dealing with this in my own pack right now.)

[Basementdweller]

Again the conversation has fallen of the cliff.

 

OMG the US of A celebrates mostly Christian Holidays.........Wellllllll, Our founding fathers were, you guessed it, Christian. Most of the folks who immigrated here for the first two hundred years were, You guessed it right again, Christian.

 

If I lived in Egypt, I would not expect christmas to be a holiday nor Easter. Because their fore fathers were not christian.

 

 

Far as the LDS question goes......I was curious, Some folks just hate everyone because they are different. the LDS folks I know are decent, hardworking and stay to themselves. That is ok. Just don't understand the outrage I see written here from the Southeast and Northwest parts of our country.

I have been a member of the forum for long enough to read the comments and see the hate and disdain.....I am not interested enough to look for links.

 

Honestly.....the entire holiday thing really didn't rolling to long after the founding fathers were dead.