Reverence in Scouting

[Jason OK 10]

OK.....what is the environment today with Reverence in Scouting? I want to get back into Scouting and I find this question very important. For example........saying grace at meals......praying to open up meetings.......having a small service on Sunday camping. It's been over 15 yrs since I was a scout and all these things were very much acceptable. Now a born again Christian I feel Reverence in Scouting is soooo important and should be not only practiced but taught as well (by example). Scout Masters....what do you think? Adults what do you think?

[mich632 10]

Reverence is important in scouting as is all other laws. You should have a chaplin in your troop who will deal with many of the things you discussed.

 

My only advice. Reverence implies a respect for a higher being. NOT any specific religion. You will have Christians, Muslims, Jews etc. Teach reverence. NOT religion.

[Jason OK 10]

Yes but........mmm.... I thought a Chaplin was of Christian origin. Although I do understand the idea of Reverence......I think back in the day it wasn't an issue (most people were of the Judeo' Christian faith) Now it's a different story and thats why I'm asking.....

[boleta 10]

The most important part of the Reverence point of the Scout Law is "he respects the beliefs of others". Unfortunately, some people have beliefs that are incompatible with this portion of the Scout Law which is a direct quote from the current BS Handbook.

I have sat on Eagle Boards of Review where the Scout thought that reverent meant Christians only. I was shocked the first time this happened and almost voted to deny the scout based on his failure to respect the beliefs of others. I hope this generates a significant amount of discussion. In my opionion, if we can exclude some individuals because they do not adhere to the Scout Oath (morally straight or duty to God and Country), then Scouts and Scouters that are unable to respect the beliefs of others should not be allowed in the organization as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jason OK 10]

Boleta,

 

You have a great point! But I have to disagree with you on the law part. I believe Reverence was put in the Law because our Scout elders realized man kind must have a God to function on this earth thus practice their faith in order to achieve your lifes best blessings .....but I guess my question has more to do with how does a scout or scouts practice their faith.....(on camping trips) chapel service. Here in Oklahoma I remember a lot of times openly practicing Christian beliefs. I would hate to offend someone, so I guess is there a more political correct code today? No church services on camp outs if everyone are not of the same faith? Does that make my question clearer? As far as your Eagle board....I hope you let the Scout know the difference between Reverence and a specific religion with out reprimand .

(This message has been edited by Jason OK)

[boleta 10]

A great reference is the old Appendix to the Scoutmastership Fundamentals course. Part III, part A-11 has Suggestions for Religious Observance and part A-13 has Suggested Interfaith Worship Services. This may be covered in the current Scoutmaster Specific Leader Training.

 

[CaveEagle 15]

Jason, I if you look aroung you will find a broad variety in the degree and flavor of reverence in scout groups. At our last coucil run summer camp the camp staff led a blessing before every meal. Leadership training that I have attended teaches Scouters to put together a Non-Denominational "Scouts Own" service and encourages leaders to offer this during our campouts. And this is in the Northeast (which about as liberal as you can get).

 

I have seen some scout groups that are very focussed on the religeous aspect of scouting. There are also some that treat reverence toward God as an afterthought (if at all).

 

I beleive that this is a strength of the BSA. A Chartered Organization (many of which are religeous organizations) has the freedom to set the tone of their troop. By appointing a Committee Chair and Scoutmaster, the CO can promote their goals through the scouting program.

 

CE

[Jason OK 10]

WOW! This is some great information! Thank you all for your input!

[mich632 10]

"I thought a Chaplin was of Christian origin."

 

It may well be. But the duties of Chaplain in the JLT handbook are:

1. keep troop appraised of religous holidays when planning activities

2. Assist in meeting the religous needs of the troop members while on activities

3. Encourage saying grace at meals

4. Tell troop about religous emblem program of their faith

5. Set good example.

 

"No church services on camp outs if everyone are not of the same faith?"

 

I have been on campouts (district) where there were multiple religous services (church) put on. I've been on smaller outings where we invite a different religous person ( priest, minister etc) each year and ask them to provide a religous service WITHOUT specific reference to their religion. Some great discussion can occur about GOD without specific reference to any one religion.

 

But the best service is always the one on the trail. Getting up early as the sun is just coming up. Here is a great quote from the scout handbook. " Wonders all around us remind us of our faith in GOD." Looking up at the stars at night or the sun cresting over the mountains enforce our co-existance with GOD. I may not be able to go to Mass, but I can hold a non-denominational service and teach the boys about reverence.

 

[Bob58 10]

I'm gonno get out some salt & pepper in case I have to eat my words but here goes.

 

One of Scouting's strengths is its abilty to be inclusive and I firmly believe that this applies to reverance. I was a scout d/ the late 60's early 70's & had a pretty liberal religious upbringing. (Catholic but w/ an emphasis on understanding other religions , tom the point of "exchanging" pastors & attending certain celebrations w/ neighboring houses of worship of different religious backgrouunds. I enjoy attending vespers at summer camp & have written non-denominational services that draw from naturalistic writings from a variety of religious backgrounds. All reflect the wonder of creation, some highlight / recognize the role of a creator. I include duty to neighbor & nation from a scouters point of view because these are scout services.

 

I am a leader in troop sponsored by a a Catholic parish - Roman rite. (I also serve on pack, crew comm.) We are very fortunate in that our parish is staffed by a religious order & has 2 retired priests in residence who were active chaplins. Our current chalin is an Eagle Scout (class of 72 or 73!) We always communicate to parents how we intend to meet our faiths religious obligation when camping or traveling. One of the priests is almost always able to camp w/ us or join us for Mass, then Sat. dinner or Sunday breakfast.

 

We have even done Mass on Saturday night, technically the vigil of Sunday, and then attended the "Scout's Own" on Sunday morning.

 

Now the tough part. For the past six years one of the "Ctholic" units has hosted a Catholic Mass at a major district event. When our unit was not responsible another troop made arrangements or our local "Catholic Committee on Scouting" would arrange for a priest to attend. Many Non-Catholic units attend & they are welcomed, but to my knowledge there has never been an open non-denominational service at this event. Both of the last two years the planning committee invited leaders to plan a non-denominational service -- no one stepped up.

 

Catholic teaching is that we share in "real presence" when we take "Communion" and that one who is not a baptized (christened) member of the church or is in a state of serious sin should not accept the invitation to Communion. Some priests make a point of addressing this before counting out hosts, communion wafers, at the beginning of the Mass. I'm sure that some scouts don't understand & I suspect that some leaders couldn't or wouldn't discuss it w/ their Scouts.

 

As I mentioned earlier I make a point of sharing reverance w/ other scouts scouters at vespers or other nondenominational services but I'm saddened by the thought that leaders might encourage / allow their charges to attend a religious celebration without the boys understanding the significance of the ritual.

 

I'll check back later & see if anyone has comments.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Jason, I think that if you look around, you will find units where religion is as much a part of the program as you remember it from your youth, and some where it isn't. My guess is that in your part of the country, the first group will be well-represented. Personally I think that some variety in this area is a good thing. A Scout is Reverent... but the number of and type of religion-related activities that occur in each troop is up to the troop (or the CO, but that is a discussion we need not get into.)

 

I also agree with boleta, "respect for the beliefs of others" is an integral part of the meaning of "Reverent" and it is right in the Scout Handbook. From what I have sometimes read in this forum in the past, some people don't take that part seriously enough.

[Bob White 20]

I think the religious environment in scouting today has changed very little over the years. It is a mixed bag of beliefs and degrees of faith based largely on what the scout's home life has taught and supported.

 

Scouts today are still developing their understanding of faith and still have a difficult time expressing their faith in front of their peers.

 

I am not sure what would lead anyone to believe that the most important part of a Scout's reverence is is in his acceptance of others beliefs. Certainly that is one element however let's look at what the handook actual says of this point in the Law.

"A Scout is reverent; he is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties and respects the convictions and beliefs of others in matters of custom and religion."

 

It would seem to me that the main thrust is that the scout be reverent toward God. Reverence means to honor, respect and to be worshipful. Certainly one form which that can take is to respect others. And in the following sentence in explaining the law the BSA calls on the scout to to respect others in their religious customs. That does not mean that you cannot be strong in your own convictions and belief.

 

It would seem to me, that to want to punish a scout for his religious convictions is in itself a violation of the characteristics required of us in the Law.

 

 

[Rooster7 11]

A Scout is reverent; he is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties and respects the convictions and beliefs of others in matters of custom and religion."

 

Once upon a time, the BSA did not require Scouts and Scouters to respect the beliefs of others rather, they required Scouts and Scouters to respect others who may hold different religious beliefs and/or possess lesser or greater convictions concerning the same.

 

Call me what you wish, but I reserve the right to NOT respect the beliefs of others. Keep in mind that some of these beliefs may include praying to inanimate objects, multiple gods, hierarchical societies, reincarnation, self-evolving into a deity, and animal worship just to name a few. I will never respect these beliefs.

 

I prefer the older interpretation of BSA policy, which required me to respect others (as equals) despite what they believed about God but not the belief itself. Somewhere along the road, within the past decade or so, someone added the language about respecting others beliefs. I dont think this was an appropriate addition.

 

[SR540Beaver 116]

Toe-may-toe, toe-mah-toe.

[SR540Beaver 116]

Jason,

 

What Council are you part of in Oklahoma? I'm in the Last Frontier Council. There is a gentleman who I met at Wood Badge when he served as a troop guide who handles a lot of the religious services for council related functions. He also came and did a religious service at my IOLS course and gave a talk on how to handle things in a troop where there may be a variety of faiths observed. In fact, he came to summer camp to do vespers last week. I could probably get you in contact with him to get his take on your questions. He just recently gave up his career to begin study for the ministry.