WHEELER 10 Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 The two stars symbolize the ideals of truth and knowledge which are the foundations of strong Scout citizenship. These stars guide the Scout (1) Nature, herself, dictates the importance of these two words. When one is in a survival mode, the truth and knowledge of which plants are dangerous or good, is necessary. False knowledge, eating the wrong thing, leads to death. Scouting is very important for the military. The commander must know the forces, direction, and layout of his enemy. Life and death depend on this. A scout must know the true disposition of enemy forces and relay that to his commander. If the scout underreports the enemys ordering the commander has false knowledge and may lead him into a trap and defeat. General Custer paid with his life and his command for blindness. If the scout exaggerates the enemy forces, then the commander, holds off the attack to build up more forces and may very well lose an opportunity to win. The whole life of the scout is bound by truth and knowledge. Truth and knowledge is the golden mean between the extremes of the under-report and the over-report, between ignorance and exaggeration. Truth and knowledge are essential. They are the difference between life and death. Truth and Knowledge are practically synonomous. The definition of Truth. One cannot know anything unless one has the concept first. This is a Socratic principle. If one does not love, have a zeal, or want truth in their soul, they can never apprehend and know truth in the first place. You gotta want it, to get it. If you dont want it, youll never get it. Truth is the FAITHFUL REPRESENTATION OF REALITY. (2) The Criteria of Truth is consistency. This is stated in Plato's Republic. Socrates uses it all the time. The clearer demonstration is from the Laches a dialogue of Plato on courage (andrea). Socrates: "And I will begin with courage, and once more ask what is that common quality, which is the same in all these cases, and which is called courage?" Noitice the words common quality and "same in all cases". The person would give a definition and then Socrates gives another situation and the person would find out that his definition would not fit this new situation. Then Socrates would ask "Give me a definition of courage that will fit ALL situations that require courage". The person then would discover the REAL definition of courage and then come to real knowledge. An expression of this truth of the criterion of consistency is sent down for the Christian Faith by St. Vincent of Lerins: "What has been believed by all, from the beginning, at all times." This statement encapsulates how the criterion of consistency works in the establishment of truth. Cicero said, "Truth is not one thing in Athens and another thing in Rome. Truth is not one thing yesterday and another thing today." Cicero said that philosophers should be judged by the degree of consistency and coherence which this whole body of doctrine displays. (3) St. Maximos the Confessor said, "One man with the truth is the majority." Truth is not based on mob rule or on opinions. Truth cannot be nullified. If someone says There is no truth. He just stated a truth. Truth does not contradict Truth. That is why Socrates was put to death. For standing for truth. Socrates is rightly called the Founder of Western Culture for it is he who directed men towards truth. Truth is the goal of every man. Socrates says thus: A man must take with him into the world below an adamantine faith in Truth and right (4) The definition of Knowledge. The subject matter of knowledge is being. Knowledge is to know the nature of being. (5) If it exists, we can know it. Knowledge then is what is apprehended from being. Socrates mentions the modality of knowing as to define and divide. (6) The first principle is to define. The principle of identity. A thing is what it is and its attributes. The second, to divide, is Paramenides principle of non-contradiction. A subject cannot have two predicates that are mutually exclusive of each other. A square circle, the living dead. These terms are oxymorons. Knowledge incorporates definition and division from what it is not. Knowledge, then, is in the business of knowing reality; all of it. As for truth and knowledge being practically the same: Truth is had as a property of knowledge when judgement is in harmony with being as it is in reality; otherwise falsity is present. (7) Truth and knowledge are central and the foundation of scouting. The job of Scouting leads to life. Without truth and knowledge as his stars to guide him, the Scout cannot do his duty, to God or Country. (1) Handbook for Boys, Boy Scouts of America, Fifth editionFourth printing January l951. Pg 47. (2) Apostolos Makrakis (3) On the Good Life, Cicero, trans. By Michael Grant, Penguin Classics, NY, l971. Pg 70. Discussions at Tusculum 10,31. (4) Republic, Plato, trans. By B. Jowett, M.A., Vintage Books, NY. Sec 619; Pg 394 (5) Ibid, Sec 478; Pg 209 (6) Ibid, Sec 454; Pg 174 (7) Catholic Encyclopaedia, l967. Vol 8, pg 225 Link to post Share on other sites
dan 10 Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Well shoot, and I have been telling the scouts that they stand for left and right! I am such a YAHOO! Link to post Share on other sites
Marty_Doyle 10 Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 This is one of the things we were going to teach the second year Webelos Thursday - it is one of the Arrow of Light requirements - what are the parts of the First Class badge and what do they stand for. I'm not sure the 10 year olds are ready for WHEELER's post. Link to post Share on other sites
WHEELER 10 Posted February 26, 2004 Author Share Posted February 26, 2004 But this is a document for you Marty Doyle (and for the yahoos at headquarters). Knowledge is to define. From thence, just take the definition of truth and say Truth is the faithful representation of truth. They can remember that and memorize that. As they grow older more parts are dribbled out and when they reach first class they can handle this as a learning experience. Let's not forget, the entrance examination for the University of Virginia and other places in 179o's was to translate 10 chapters of John's Gospel from Greek into Latin; not even English. They did this at the age of 14 or 15. Boys want a mountain to climb. Give it to them. Tell them of a story of fronteir scouts that encasulate the necessity of "Truth and Knowledge". Use Captain Custer and tie it in with importance of scouting.(This message has been edited by WHEELER)(This message has been edited by WHEELER) Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 I must be a bunpkin! I always thought truth was the opposite of a lie! And knowledge meant ya knew stuff! Don't think it matters what you know as long as you know stuff! Some have more knowledge than others! And some that have a whole bunch of knowledge don't have the knowledge of how to use the knowledge they have! I think I confused myself! Now my head hurts! Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OldGreyEagle Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Are we talking Capt George Armstrong Custer? Graduated last in his class at West Point, actually did go AWOL, got court martialed, was suspended from the Army and then made some of the worst tactical decisions in the history of the US Army? How does scouting tie in with him?... Unless of course by "scouting" you mean sending out a patrol to find out whats in front of you before Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse and the entire Sioux Nation come riding down on top of you. Link to post Share on other sites
Fuzzy Bear 12 Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Wheeler, You are coloring outside the lines again. A good cleanser for the walls is in order. I am also sure the whole house has been done in. Link to post Share on other sites
WHEELER 10 Posted February 26, 2004 Author Share Posted February 26, 2004 I must be talking to a group of Pharisees and Saducees. In the mission and vision statements of the BSA is the word "value". The word virtue appears in the Federal Charter and not the word value. "Value" does not at all have the same meaning of the term virtue. In the post "Socialist words or Christian Classical Words" I pointed out the total lack of KNOWLEDGE of the BSA for putting this mission and vision statement out. It seems we don't have a clue what we are talking about anywhere on this message board. NOT A SINGLE PERSON HERE KNEW THE MEANING AND THE DEFINITION OF THE WORD VIRTUE. Every body slammed the original post. And when I point out that Knowledge is necessary, I get slammed again. You are not yahoos any more You are dunderheads. To use the word "value" instead of the word virtue means that none of you have any clue on what it means to be a man. You have no clue on how to train men. It is clear by the facts of this message board that none of you have any idea what manhood is about. YOUR OWN POSTS PROVE YOUR TOTAL LACK OF KNOWLEDGE AND YOUR COMPLETE IGNORANCE on the subject! YOU'RE INCOMPETENT AND JUDASES TO BOYS AND MEN ALIKE. You have no fidelity to the original intent of the BSA!(This message has been edited by WHEELER) Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Yahoos & Judases????? Do you eat with the same mouth you spew this drivel with? You seem to want to analyze the original charter word by word. For what reason is beyond me & probably most of the others here. I'm sure Bill Clinton could have used your expertise when he wanted the definition of "is". Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
Twocubdad 665 Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 "The entrance examination for the University of Virginia and other places in 179o's was to translate 10 chapters of John's Gospel from Greek into Latin; not even English." Damn multiculturalists! I'm I sensing a bit of a meltdown here? Link to post Share on other sites
acco40 95 Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 From thence, just take the definition of truth and say Truth is the faithful representation of truth. Yikes! Sounds like my young ones when they use a word I don't know. Their explanation is thus, jafo;agh hvn, you know, it means jafo;agh hvn! Okay, now I understand. Link to post Share on other sites
firstpusk 10 Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Some guy is talking to the Pharisees, Sadducees and Judas. That guy must be pretty smart - he knows that truth is true and thats not false, honest. Scouts honor - which he does not have. Link to post Share on other sites
WHEELER 10 Posted February 27, 2004 Author Share Posted February 27, 2004 From "A Dictionary of Americanisms; On Historical Principles", editied by Mitford M. Mathews. Pg 1895, Yahoo is "an early settler in California". 1855 SIMMS Forayers 203 The Yahoos were another tory banditti; ther name, with a strange tast, self-chosen... 1872 POWERS, Afoot&Alone 282, It is ot these Yahoos alone who find themselves without wives, for the best old Spanish blood goes a begging. Dunderment A state of astonishment or confusion. "I was kind of struck with a dunderment." "You never see'd a fellow in such a dunderment in your life". Dunderheads is my creation meaning "confused heads". To OGE and Marty Doyle, as in the original post that Custer lost his life and command due to his lack of scouting. That is why we know history, as Thycidides and the Federalist papers point out, history teaches lessons and this is a good lesson on the failure of not getting the truth and knowledge of a situation. Link to post Share on other sites
firstpusk 10 Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 "Dunderheads is my creation meaning 'confused heads'." Yup. Trustworthy ol' WHEELER. From Webster's 1913 Dictionary (found on Hyperdictionary http://www.hyperdictionary.com/ ) Dunderhead \Dun"der*head`\, n. [Prov. Eng. also dunderpoll, from dunder, same as thunder.] A dunce; a numskull; a blockhead. --Beau. & Fl BTW, Custer lost his life because of excessive hubris and stupidity. Not exactly the role model I would use to impress the notion of "Be Prepared". Link to post Share on other sites
WHEELER 10 Posted February 28, 2004 Author Share Posted February 28, 2004 Thanks. I meant that Custer DID set a bad example, therefore he is a good example for WHAT NOT TO DO. Yes, Hubris and stupidity led to his demise. I see the same hubris and stupidity here also that is leading the BSA program to its own demise and ultimately the demise of masculinity and manhood. Link to post Share on other sites
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