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mdsummer45

Eagle Problems....BIG

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Fill out the application. Sadly, it's a dead link at the National website at the moment. Hopefully, someone here has a good link to a copy of it, or has a copy they can PM with you for email addresses and such (no, don't give it out online).

 

Work with the Eagle Advisor on his references and his goals and ambitions and everything else. He needs that stuff when he enters the Troop Committee Room. Your son should call that guy tonight.

 

He needs to show the committee he's a mature, responsible young man ready for Eagle.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

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Would it be appropriate to identify the BSA council and district unit that my son is in. But not the actual Troop. Perhaps someone who is close by could help us on a more local level?(This message has been edited by mdsummer45)

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Hal,

 

COOL. Good Link :)

 

Ms Summer, here's an Eagle App for your son to download.

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THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!!! What a wonderful group. What a demonstration of the scout spirit.. total strangers took the time to read my problem and all of you have gone out of your way to provide answers to questions that my son should have be able to get from his troop leaders. Amazing...you guys are amazing!!!! My son called his Eagle advisor to ask about getting the application and was told to "find it on the internet" after my son told him that the site was down the Eagle advisor said ..."well....I don't know what to tell ya, just keep looking". You all are helping to restore my faith in scouts. After reading these posts my son said.. too bad I never got to experience this type of scout support in my time in scouts. I told him to remember all the help you guys have given him and he needs to remember even if things never work out for him he needs to pay it back down the road.

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My son just received this email from the CC:

 

 

 

"I am calling the Special Committee Meeting for Monday, April 13th, at 7:30 PM, at XYZ . The meeting is being called for the express purpose of discussing whether or not the Committee should overturn the Scoutmaster's decision, recommend you for Eagle, and approve scheduling an Eagle Board of review.

 

If you would like, your parents can attend as observers. Everyone but troop committee members will be asked to leave after all presentations have been made so that the committee can deliberate and render a decision. Also, for information purposes, since at this point it has not been determined that you have completed all of the Eagle requirements, Mr. Eagle Advisor has been instructed to not mail your letters of recommendation pending the outcome of the Special Committee Meeting."

 

 

Okay, should this not turn out in my son favor, he should( or can I ?)tell them at that time that he is requesting that the committees decision be given to him in writing stating the reasons he has been denied and he should inform the CC that he will be starting an appeal? Does this CC's email sound like the troop is follow procedure? Thanks

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Yes I think he should ask for their explanation of a "no" vote in writing. Others have pointed out that this special committee meeting isn't found in the appeals procedure for an EBOR anyway, so this doesn't fit perfectly, but he can point out to the committee that at other ranks the BOR is obligated to provide a letter to the scout explaining their denial of rank. So there is some sort of precedent for written documentation. He is going along with the troop's "special procedure" as a last-gasp, good-faith effort to be respectful of his troop leaders; the very least the committee can do is provide him with formal feedback.

 

Whether they agree to provide that letter or not though, if he is denied by the troop committee, it is time to immediately return to the district folks (the very next morning) to politely insist on an appeal. Don't wait for the letter to show up, even if they promise they'll get it to him in a couple of days. Who knows how long that will actually take them.

 

In fact, if I were you I'd make sure that the district advancement chair and the Field Director, to whom you spoke today, are aware of this "special meeting" before it even happens. I don't think you'd be out of order to provide them copies of the emails sent to your son by the committee chair, right now. You want them to be on top of the story all the way, rather than having to catch them up to speed on April 14th, at which point your son has only 4 weeks left to get this resolved. Further, they might quietly bring some pressure to bear on the troop leaders in advance of this 4/13 meeting, and who knows? Maybe the troop will relent. Not likely, but always possible.

 

Edited to add: The part about the Eagle Adviser not mailing the letters of rec has left me wondering. Make sure your son has independently lined up people to write letters of rec on very short notice - that way, if Eagle Adviser tries to institute further delays, your son can work around him.

(This message has been edited by lisabob)

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As an Eagle Scout who had to endure bs similar to this, the DAC didn't want to pass me since he was not the DAC that approved my project 4 years prior to my EBOR, my advice would be to have the committee write it out then and there on a piece of paper, with the formal letter to be delivered within a specified period of time. I would then mention that per the ACP&P, which I would have a copy at the meeting, you are immediately appealing this decision to the District level for review.

 

My experiences is that you mention appeals process, things get turned around fast. As a young scout, I never heard of someone being turned down for Eagle before and did not know there was an appeal process. When the DAC asked me '"What if we were to tell you, you did not pass your Eagle board because of your project" I challenged him on it and asked is there any appeal process, this really shook him up and after further deliberations with me outside of the room, he reconsidered.

 

Also as a former pro, I can tell you that any benefits of the doubt go to the scout, adn they usaally pass them. BUT get the process started NOW.

 

Lastly I would notify the FD about what is going on andgive him a heads up.

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One place where the unit is getting creative: The Eagle Advisor holding back on sending out the letters to the references.

 

You, not son, contact District Advancement Chair. Explain the release of Eagle reference forms to your sons references is being withheld by the Committee Chair and the Eagle Advisor. Ask him for the formats used.

 

Then have your son deliver those to his selected references. Ask him to hold them in confidence until either he or the Eagle Advisor gives a "send to" address.

 

If the Troop goes forward, he's given them a jump start, and the clock is ticking.

 

If the Troop denies, your son asks the District Advancement Chair if he will receive them. I assume yes. Then, your son gives the DAC's address to the references.

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Note that the letters of reference do not have to be received before the 18th birthday.

 

What the CC said about not sending out the reference requests is pointless. If the Eagle application hasn't been submitted yet he doesn't have the list of references to send them to. It sounds like he needed to say something to demonstrate that he is in control; that he and the SM have power over your son. Pretty pathetic really.

 

Let us all know how the meeting turns out.

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Ms Summer,

Today either you or your son contact the DAC to inform him of the April 13th meeting. Ask him if he would be willing to except the letters of recommendation for your son, so there will be no further possibilities of delay tactics by your son's troop committee. Also ask the DAC if he minds if your son calls him right after the meeting to inform him of the outcome, and request the appeal be started if need be.

 

At the meeting, if the committee backs the SM and tables the application, have your son:

1) Ask for the reasons in writing.

2) Inform the committee that he needs to make an important call immediately due to time constraints. Have him then pull out his cell phone in front of the committee, and call the DAC informing the DAC of the outcome, and ask that the appeal process be started the next day in his behalf.

 

This will show the committee that your son is responsible, knows and understands the appeals process, and is no longer going to put up with the committee's delaying tactics. I wouldn't be suprised if this shakes up the committee a bit. They will not be expecting a Scout to be this prepared at this point, and at this time, to immediately start the appeals process right in front of them, by having the DAC's phone number handy, and taking the initiative to call the DAC right then and there. They just might reconsider what they are doing, and their decision. It may also make the committee think twice before trying to pull this over on another Scout.

 

If everythings goes good for your son at the meeting, just have your son walk up to the Eagle advisor and hand him the sealed envelope from the DAC with his sealed letters of recommendations in it. Again showing what Being Prepared is all about.

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Psst.

 

Letters of reference are not required. The requirement is for the Eagle Candidate to list those who would be willing to give him a reference. There is nothing that states that reference MUST be a letter. It could be a phone call, e-mail, text message, fax, etc.

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I will call the DAC today and get him up to speed on my sons situation. Since the mtg does not start until 7:30p it may be too late in the evening for my son to call the DAC at the close of the mtg((should things not go in his favor). Instead, my son is going to have a letter prepare to hand to the CC thanking them for holding the mtg and informing them that he has already been in contact with MR DAC who told him to contact him after the mtg should my son need to begin the appeal process. The letter will state that my son will be contacting DAC first thing in the morning to begin the process. Also my son will request that the CC provide him, in writing within 3 days of this letter, the reason for the committees decision and in the future provide my son with all necessary documents pertaining to my sons attendance , leadership positions, merit badges etc(anything that my son may need ) also within 3 days of my sons request for such material.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I love that you and your son are so considerate of the DAC (congatulations, you're getting the ScoutSpeak down so well! hehe), but I think a call the next morning is late and giving the committee opportunity to make the same call that evening. This individual is accustomed to being at district meetings, trainings, and other events that will keep him up late. The committee will think nothing of a 10:00 call if need be. If this meeting runs beyond an hour and a half, it's gone too long. I'm going to make a suggestion that I fear others will disagree with, but here goes...if your council has a NESA Chapter, check the roles. Perhaps, there is an Eagle Scout who is an attorney willing to do a little pro bono work on behalf of a hopeful brother. We do live in a litigious society, and in no way do I condone frivolous action, but might the letter with deadline demands have more teeth from that intermediary? Not sure...just a thought. At the very least, if the DAC is sympathetic to the situation, perhaps a letter from him citing the necessary passages in ACP&P and reminding them that they must adhere to this policy would bolster your son's requests. Regardless of what you and your son decide, I have to agree that a well placed phone call in the presence of this august body will let them know how serious your son is taking this all.

 

Just my 2 cents...

 

Wil

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