cheffy Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 In this months Scouter MAgazine there was a nice article on the 50 anniversary of the pine wood derby. The article gave examples of how building a car is a great learning experience etc. On about page 4 of the magazine is a full page add for pre built pine wood cars now available at Target. I guess the experience the Cubs are getting from going to Target is how to use a charge card and not have to work at anything. I don't have a problem with the boys going to the hobby shop and buying a roughed out body and all the parts and then finishing the car but this pre built thing is crazy. Is BSA that desperate for dollars that they would accept this advertising? I'll get off my soap box now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMT376Richmond KY Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 $$ and the fact that ever popular best of show. All the boys think (and should think)that there car is the best. Plus trophies for such as an award. In my Pack days it seemd that these went to 1 or two boys whos dad's built the car. No way can a Tiger have smoothly sanded and convex concave shaped racer with a gleaming lacqured finish. The one year they had the boys vote and my son won for his shark design with the fin and tail that were rough proved this point. I think the best PW we had was when we didn't present trophies but ribbons and raced each level (tiger vs tiger etc). Oh and participation ribbons. I didn't see as many long faces as when the next year the trophies came out (donated of course by the family who's two sons had wone best of show 3 of 4 years). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMT376Richmond KY Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 $$$ it's all about money for the national and the ever popular best of show. All the boys think(and should think)that there car is the best of show. Plus trophies for such as an award. In my Pack days it seemd that these went to 1 or two boys who it was obvious the dad's built the car not the boys. No way can a Tiger have smoothly sanded convex and concave shaped racer with a gleaming lacqured finish. If so he's wasting his time in tigers and should get into MIT fast. The one year they had the boys vote and my son won for his shark design with the fin and tail that were rough proved this point. I think the best PW we had was when we didn't present trophies but ribbons and raced each level (tiger vs tiger etc). Oh and participation ribbons. I didn't see as many long faces as when the next year the trophies came out (donated of course by the family who's two sons had wone best of show 3 of 4 years). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutldr Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 When I was CM, "back in the day", each Cub was presented a "winter holiday gift"(can't say Christmas any more) of a PW Derby car kit at the December Pack mtg, purchased by the Pack. Those were the ones that had to be used. A Scout is Trustworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I've not seen the magazine yet, but advertising pre-made cars sounds like a really dumb idea. What are they thinking? But neither do I see a whole lot of difference between parents who buy their sons pre-made cars and those who somehow see honor in making their sons build the cars all alone. Neither has taken advantage of the opportunity to spend time with their son. Pinewood Derbies should be about the Scout and his adult partner spending time together working on the car. I don't mind telling you that I probably spend a lot more time working on my sons' cars than most parents. I'll guarantee that my sons spend more time working on on their cars than most of the other boys. And it shows. they always come home with one or more of the design awards, which are voted on by the other boys in the pack. But in the process my boys have learned to use a bandsaw, drill press, air brush and a host of hand tools. They also have learned about the process of sanding, priming, and painting multiple coats to get a smooth finish. Is all this done with me sitting across the room watching the game? Heck no. It is a hands-on process, usually involving four hands most of the time. I'll also add that for the past two years, we've had two different dens over for den meetings where the boys and their parent use my shop to work on the cars. Most Saturday and Sunday afternoons during PWD season there are Scout families over using my shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 We used to run "den races" and then have an overall double elimination pack race to see who would go on to District's. The distribution of ranks in the pack race was usually pretty broad. Also, it was rare that an obvious "daddy-built" car finished in the top five. Karma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 "use a bandsaw, drill press, air brush and a host of hand tools" Holy Cow TwoCubDad, I thought I was sophisticated when my son and I used an Xacto knife and Quadruple 0000 steel wool. Never won, but we had fun, thinking of doing a PWD as a Venture Activity, a council wide activity. (Oh Man, Pounder is going to flip) Races start at midnight, of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk9750 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 As both of my sons got older, they took over more and more of the making of their cars, with me moving from doing @ 70% to me doing about 5%. The less I did, the better the car finished. Can't agree with Twocubdad more. Although one has to be very cognizant of the fine line between doing with and doing for, there are few oppurtunities as precious in my memory as working with my guys on their cars. One of the picture I have in my office is of my 2nd year Webelo, my Wolf Scout, and I holding all our cars at the top of the PWD track. You'd have to pry that picture out of my dead hands to get it from me. My eyes are welling up typing this. Wish every dad took the oppurtunity to be with his kids like I've had. I'll never forget it, and the memories sure make "one hour a week" a lot easier to swallow. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMT376Richmond KY Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Don't get me wrong, I worked with my son on his assiting him with cutting filing sanding painting etc. I just never did the entire job like many I saw in our former Packs races. The cars shape was always his idea and the paint scheme or lack there of was his etc etc. I agree the dads that did it all missed out on one important aspect of scouts working with you son. The comments "do I go up and down or back and forth with this file das" can never be gotten back. Also, when he looks at those cars with the errant gouge with the file he often says "dad I really messed that up didn't I glad you help me fix it right." 100% dad made cars don't have that and never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 I'm a professional, OGE. Don't try this on your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 I wont, I promise I wont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fboisseau Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Pre built cars are not an issue in my district, since all cars are required to use the wheels and axles provided in the kit from the Scout Shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 The Scout shop sells wheel kits so that isn't an issue. What I see as the big negative is that the prebuild/pre-cut kits eliminate half the fun of the event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsteele Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 I like what I see in this thread about how much parents appreciate the true spirit of the pinewood derby -- building the car with your kid. I don't particularly care for the assumption that the folks at national accepted this paid advertising out of greed. It seems that it's just assumed that they're greedy, stupid or both. 1) I think the editors of Scouting Magazine realize that the target audience of the magazine is Scouters who care enough about their kid to sign up to be a volunteer in the program, or care enough about the program to keep its values. So they accept an advertisement thinking that the Cub Scout Leader parent isn't going to buy his kid a car. 2) The folks at Target aren't stupid either. I have a theory of who would buy a pre-made pinewood derby car (actually 2 theories.) 1) A parent who has one cub age boy and one considerably younger. He/she is looking forward to making the car with Cub Scout son, but the 4 year old is too young to make a car. So he/she buys the little kid a car of his own he can play with and push around the house, etc. without fear that "big brother Cub Scout's" car isn't destroyed by little too young. 2) A non-wood worker like me who may be in a pack who does a "dad's race" and wants to race, but doesn't want to make his own car. DS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraT7 Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Dan - I can think of another - actually two - who this would be an option for: the single mom who has no tools or woodworking abilities, yet her son wants to participate - or a couple of my den boys, who lived in apartments and parents had no tools, skills or place to build one. I haven't seen these pre- built cars - but are they painted and everything? Ready to run as is? I could see one that was worked, but had to be painted. this would be something to appeal to those who did not have the woodworking skills and tools to participate - to simply assemble and paint a car. of course, i doubt they would EVER win anything - Of course, I'm an odd mom anyway - I LOVE power tools and wood refinishing and home improvement projects - My son and I bought our Dremel mostly to use on the derby cars. I don't have a workshop as fancy as TwoCubDads - But what tools and knowledge we had, we invited and shared with many of the parents and boys in our den. Mostly boys... It was sad that many parents could not (or would not) take the time to do this with their boys - even when I offered the use of my basement, garage and tools. I got to help MANY boys build their cars and we had a ball doing it! Pinewood derby started my son on an interest in tools and woodworking - and he is more adept with tools than most boys of his age, even now. He really got into the science of 'speed' in the cars, and less on beauty - but he won a few trophies and even got to regionals once. His cars will probably always hold a place of honor and cherished memories for him - for both of us. It's a shame some parents choose to miss out on that ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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