Abel Magwitch 10 Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 A question - can a Pack or Troop become a quality unit and receive their ribbon without filling out the quality unit application? Can the application simply be filled out by the Scout office without any signatures from the unit's membership? Link to post Share on other sites
The Blancmange 67 Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 I'm assuming you're aware that QU has been replaced with Journey to Excellence and are asking about past actions by your district or council. The QU form clearly requires a unit signature: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/513-190_wb.pdf The motivation for a district to submit one on behalf of a unit that did not submit their own is clear - it is a factor in quality district/coucil. So the question is, how do they know whether all the goals were met? They have access to some of the info, like membership and retention, but some of it would only be known by the unit. Link to post Share on other sites
Abel Magwitch 10 Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 You assume correctly. I needed to make clear I was referring to the previous program. And your follow-up questions are my questions as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Papadaddy 121 Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Happened to us...we did not participate in the Centennial QU Award because all of our boys were Eagling/aging out and we did not intend on reregistering the troop (the DE was aware of this). Got the ribbon/patch anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
Abel Magwitch 10 Posted July 2, 2011 Author Share Posted July 2, 2011 We just found out our troop was a quality unit last year. Problem is we were not participating. We never filled out an application yet we were a quality unit. I was surprised that our district was a quality district last year. The district last year did not have a district commissioner. Yet somehow, the district was a quality district and the District Director (who was filling in as DE)stood up at the council dinner to receive his plaque. A few months ago the district got a new DE while the DD went back to overseeing his two districts. I inquired of the new DE if our troop was a quality unit. He got back to me and told us that we were. He just called me a week ago to tell me that our quality unit ribbon was in the mail. So I must ask what is your take on a professional filling out quality unit applications without notifying the unit that he is doing so? And then that same person choosing not recognize the units that he filled out the applications for? Is this right? Link to post Share on other sites
ScoutNut 147 Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 If you don't feel that you genuinely earned Quality Unit, what does it matter to you that you were not told about it? Are you planning on displaying the ribbon, and the patch, even though you did not really earn them? How is that any different than what your DE did? Link to post Share on other sites
moosetracker 132 Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 If I know Abel from several other threads, that is not the point.. I think it is more the underhandedness of sneaking in units to earn the Quality Unit, in order for the district to get an award that it did not deserve.. Part of the underhandedness, was in not contacting the units he filled out the forms for, so that they would not question how they earned it. It is shady, but if your council does things like enroll kids & units that don't exist to cheat the system, why are you at all surprised by something like this. Link to post Share on other sites
Abel Magwitch 10 Posted July 2, 2011 Author Share Posted July 2, 2011 First off, thank you Moosetracker. I was surprised that the district was actually given the award while some other truly quality districts did not receive the award. I didn't think the district even had a chance considering that there is no district commissioner or unit commissioner staff. Several of the council's other DE's took note when our district was announced. I saw a few shaking their heads. Scoutnut - you missed the point.(This message has been edited by abel magwitch) Link to post Share on other sites
ScoutNut 147 Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 No, I actually did not. Your point is always to complain about your District/Council. Your point is always to vent. Venting is fine. However you need to make up your mind. Are you pissed that your District did something shady? Are you pissed you were not informed you got an award? Or are you pissed just to be pissed? If you truly want to make a stab at doing something to make this right, forcing your DE to send you your unit ribbon is not the way. Contact your SE and tell him that your unit did NOT earn the Quality Unit Award. Link to post Share on other sites
Papadaddy 121 Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I agree with Abel. I would be pissed that we were USED in order to make the DE look good and make his/her "numbers". We did not display the ribbon nor did we buy the patches for the scouts, because we did not earn them. And complaining to the SE is ludicrous...they are probably in on it. Link to post Share on other sites
ScoutNut 147 Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 It might very well be "ludicrous". However, it might not. It certainly could not hurt, and would be doing the right thing on your part, no matter if the SE was "in on it" or not. Link to post Share on other sites
Abel Magwitch 10 Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 ScoutNut, you have definitely missed the point. Your assumption that I am forcing my DE to send me a ribbon tells me that you have some real misconceptions about my post. So let me clear up some things for you. Our DE is brand spanking new fresh out of college. The District Director who was our DE for the past year or so is a seasoned pro and very adept at membership management. I knew that there was no way our district could have achieved its quality status in the shape the district is in. When the new DE came aboard, I took the opportunity to ask him if our unit was a quality unit last year. I already knew that we had not filled out the application. He responded that we were. He later called me and told me that he found that none of the quality unit ribbons were ever sent out to any of the quality units from last year. He was pleased to let me know that our ribbon was finally in the mail. I am sure that there will be other units who will be surprised when they receive ribbons 7 months later when they never participated in the quality program. I never even asked for a ribbon and I certainly did not force the DE to send us a ribbon. Your assumption is wrong. If you don't feel that you genuinely earned Quality Unit, what does it matter to you that you were not told about it?... Genuinely earning the quality unit award To earn the award, one must first participate in the process. The leaders of the unit must be dedicated to achieving the criteria to be a quality unit. The leaders must set their goals and work to achieve them. And the leaders along with the DC sign the application. But how can the award be genuinely earned if the leaders of the unit did not do these things? It is now apparent that the district director filled out the application for us, set the units goals himself and apparently achieved the award for the unit without having any unit leaders or district commissioner agreeing or dedicating themselves to anything. To me and the rest of the leaders of my Troop, this is not right. The DD is not being trustworthy. Instead he exploited units for his own personal gains. Your statement of Feeling that I did or did not genuinely earn the award does not apply. This situation is not about what I feel- it is how the award was acquired and for who the award was acquired for. The award was acquired by a professional scouter who wanted to make his criticals. Like I have posted before I belong to a district that has not had a single Boy Scout activity since the district was formed 10 years ago. It is a district without a viable district committee. And once again, the district has a key 1 not a key 3. The district is not one of quality by any standard other than those that are made up. Now, if you would ask me if my unit is one of quality offering a quality program to youth, my answer is yes. Are you planning on displaying the ribbon, and the patch, even though you did not really earn them?... No. We will not display the ribbon or wear the patch. We dont need a ribbon or a patch to show that we are a quality Troop. How is that any different than what your DE did?... Again you assume that we were going to do so with your above question. Again your assumption is wrong. . Your stand on this situation leads me to believe that you feel that it is ok for others to exploit a unit for their own gains. Am I correct? By the way, when I post stuff about my council and district, I provide the facts of the situation. I have observed others in Scouting who feel that it is wrong to bring up situations where others in power are abusing their positions. For me, I will fight when Scouts are not given the promised program that they paid for with their fees. I will fight for Scouts when others make up their own rules and add their own requirements above what is actually required. (This message has been edited by abel magwitch) Link to post Share on other sites
ScoutNut 147 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 So - are you planning on telling your SE that your DD/DE lied? That your unit did not participate in/earn the Quality Award? Link to post Share on other sites
Abel Magwitch 10 Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 The SE - no. I know for certain that he is supportive of the guy and his actions. Members of the executive board - perhaps. But they tend to believe whatever the SE tells them and do not participate at the unit level. Other volunteer leaders - yes. Some will understand the situation, others are just happy to get another award. So ScoutNut, I have answered your question. Please answer mine. Link to post Share on other sites
ScoutNut 147 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 >>"Your stand on this situation leads me to believe that you feel that it is ok for others to exploit a unit for their own gains. Am I correct?" Link to post Share on other sites
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