Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
OldGreyEagle

Dissapointed in Self and Others

Recommended Posts

So, the council had a combined Advancement Committee Meeting last night. One of the topics was a representative taking a shot at the District I serve concerning "quality" of Eagle Projects from one District to another. He reminded the committee that a long time ago, like 7-10 years the Council Advancement Committee said they wanted to see 40 hours of time put in by the scout planing the project. I said they couldnt do that, it was contrary to National Policy and was told I was lowering Eagle Standards. Then another District wanted to require scouts to appear before Eagle Boards of Review in perfect uniforms or be turned away. I said you can't do that as the BSA does not require scouts to own a uniform. So, again I was told I was lowering standards, I about lost it and was lucky enough to leave before saying and doing things I would have regretted.

 

I sometimes wonder why I get so passionate about scouting, I am not sure its worth the angst, certainly not worth my whole body shaking in anger as I walk to my car

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OGE,

 

Trust me, it's worth it. I'm reassured of it every time I compare the "before" to the "after" product, and every time a parent thanks me for all the time I spend helping their boys because maybe they can't or don't know how to help.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OGE,

 

More evidence that its worth it

 

CENTENNIAL, CO - A local Boy Scout is glad his troop learned the Heimlich maneuver during first aid training because it may have saved his sister's life.

 

Last Wednesday 8-year-old Jordyn Baker and her brother, 12-year-old Jackson, were at their family's breakfast nook doing homework when Jordyn started choking on a carrot.

 

Their mom was upstairs, so Jackson took quick action to help his struggling sister.

 

"I started to cough and I couldn't really breathe anymore, and then Jackson just did the Heimlich," said Jordyn.

 

"I didn't really think, I just started doing the Heimlich maneuver on her and called for my mom," said Jackson.

 

Their mother, Tracy, got downstairs just in time to see her son successfully do the Heimlich. She was both proud and relieved.

 

"I was very shaken up. And I was so grateful at the same time that Jackson had the composure to do exactly what he needed to do to save his sister," she said.

 

Jackson's patrol advisor, Marc Ginsburg, says he's working to get Jackson the badge for heroism.

 

"The bottom line is that Scouts is just more than walking old ladies across the street, and doing good deeds. I mean, he actually saved his sister's life," he said.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OGE, don't be dissapointed in yourself. Your passion shows that you care enough about scouting to know how it should be run. And, your wisdom shows that know how to choose your battles.

 

When my SPL gets all worked up over something, I tell him, "let it flow past you like a stone in the river".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OGE,

I feel your pain.

A few years back I was asked by our DE to chair a meeting of the Council Advancement Committee.

I'll admit I wasn't overjoyed.

Advancement is not really my cup of tea!!

In fact I really don't see the need for a committee. Other than to ensure that Districts have working and up to date lists of Merit Badge Counselors and are doing what is needed for Eagle Scout BOR's.

The "Requirement Thing?" Is clearly laid out in the requirements set by the BSA.

 

There have been times when I have been accused of being a little too progressive? I'm not sure what this was supposed to mean? But I took it as a complement!!

Anyway -

I sat in on this Advancement Committee Meeting.

The Committee hadn't met for a very long time. It seems that the Council Advancement Chair had gone MIA some time back and a meeting hadn't been called.

We have four Districts in the Council and all four District Advancement Chairs were present. At the time I was serving as a District Chair and Council Training Chair. Along with the Area Committee.

The guys and girls who served on the Training Committee were a great bunch.

They really seen their role as helping leaders to get trained which would result in a better program for the youth.

Somehow the guys who served on the Advancement Committee must not have got the memo about helping others!!

While I'm sure they had good intentions and maybe even meant well? Within a matter of minutes I wasn't sure if we all belonged to the same organization!

Yes I heard about how many hours should go into an Eagle Scout project.

Yes the "Full Uniform" thing came up. Which was a little funny as the guy who brought it up was wearing a Scout uniform shirt and blue jeans!!

Thankfully none of these guys had bothered to read anything in the past twenty years!! So when they started spurting out the same old same old, I was able to tell them that they were wrong or it had changed!! Or "That went out a very long time ago!!"

This took the wind out of their sails! It didn't make them happy. There was a fair amount of moans and groans.

One great thing about having an English accent is at times it can make me sound like I even know what I'm talking about!!

After the meeting was over, the SE, my best friend Mike who was serving as a Council Vice President and your's truly stopped at Eat'n'park (Grilled Stickies and ice cream for me!) I made it known that I'd never sit on that committee again.

So maybe next time "They" get to you? Try thinking about a big plate of Grilled Stickies and ice cream.

It worked for me!!

Ea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Grilled Stickies are those District Advancement Chairs you stick it to and rake over the coals. :)

 

SWScouter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Then another District wanted to require scouts to appear before Eagle Boards of Review in perfect uniforms or be turned away. I said you can't do that as the BSA does not require scouts to own a uniform."

 

If you read the BSA materials closely, they state uniform parts should not be worn with civilian wear, and that the uniform should be worn completely or not at all. I see no problem with requiring an Eagle candidate to show up in full uniform. They are trying for our highest award! They are supposed to be high achievers - why not expect that from them?

 

As I've said before, I have never heard anyone praise their leaders or mentors for being easy on them. The teachers you always hear mentioned in graduation speeches are the ones that challenged their students and required a lot out of them, not the ones who let them just slide through.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would expect an Eagle candidate to be in full uniform, but I've always been under the impression that Scouts are not required to own a uniform, and I don't think I'd be requiring a boy to borrow one if they couldn't afford one or if the troop's clothes closed didn't have anything in his size.

 

Scouts isn't the military. I really hate it when I hear of units or even districts trying to treat it as though it were.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OGE, I confront this stuff more and more frequently. My tactic is to produce the written regulations and ask them on what basis they think they are allowed to violate the regulations. If they can offer a lucid, reasonable explanation, then it is worth hearing. And I do listen to them. If not, otherwise, it usually leaves THEM with the shaking and stomach knots, not me.

I think it helps to cultivate and maintain objective detachment in arguments like this. This allows you to focus on the rationale of both sides, to see more easily the flaws in your opponents' arguments, and sometimes to see the flaws in yours as well.

I wish you luck. If I was there, I'd stand with you and take some hits for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's too, too, easy to spout "we need to keep up the 'Standards', and the way to do it is to block advancement to Eagle." If the problem is that "not enough" hours are being expended on an Eagle project, focus on the project approval at the Scoutmaster level, not at the Eagle BOR level. If the Eagle candidate doesn't yet understand the importance of wearing the uniform at his Eagle BOR, the fix might better be focused at his Scout or Tenderfoot Scoutmaster conference, not as a block at his Eagle BOR. What this really says to the boy is that, his leadership failed him, but we're taking it out on you. Put the blame for failing the standards, if there is any, where it belongs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if that's the sort of reason for the big push on Adult Training everywhere - because of situations like described... where as FScouter mentioned - the Boy's leadership failed him, and perhaps things should have been more closely scrutinized at the earliest rank levels. Waiting until the Eagle BOR is not effective, obviously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Council Advancement Committee said they wanted to see 40 hours of time put in by the scout planing the project."

 

Ok, so I know that you can't add to the requirements. But when you first come to this point in a Scout's career, it is really handy to have some rule of thumb as to how much leadership and planning is sufficient. If the boy does three good hours of work, is that enough? Should it take more like 100 hours of work? Yes, if you go to enough Eagle project approvals (in our district, the district approves these things before the Scout starts work), you can get an idea of what they're looking for. But that shouldn't have to be the way to do it. Phrases like "sufficient leadership" are very, very subjective. And I do agree that it wouldn't be good for districts to end up with really different ideas about how much leadership is enough.

 

So while you can't require forty hours, you can certainly give people an idea of how much time you would think would be needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...