JimmyD 10 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 We aren't too happy with our council right now can we switch? (This has been going on for the past year) Link to post Share on other sites
acco40 95 Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Yes (but only if your CO moves with you). What Council/District you are in depends on geography, not choice. Link to post Share on other sites
KoreaScouter 13 Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Councils are laid out along geographic lines, so on the face of it, you can't simply shop around for one whose leadership, infrastructure, "bedside manner", or whatever, you happen to like. That said, there are a few instances I can think of that might give you what you're looking for (there may be others, so forum members, jump in here). 1). A council consolidation, where two combine to form one, with a new name (and hopefully in your case, a change in whatever variables you're not happy with now). 2). It's recharter time; don't turn in your recharter paperwork. Then, all the members of your unit move out of the current council, into the geographic territory of another. Find a CO, and register as a new unit. New council will love you right off the bat. You may have to deal with equipment issues, though 3). If you live near the boundary between two councils, change COs from your current one, to one just over the boundary in the next council. Same equipment issues as #2. OK, #1's a remote possibility, and #2's a little farfetched, and #3's dependent on everybody living within commute distance of the next council. Maybe it's easier to try to fix what you think is wrong with the council you're in? KS Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 If you could find a new CO in the other council or get your CO to rent a PO Box, I don't think that any members would have to move. Members aren't restricted by geography to which units they may join. Link to post Share on other sites
Eamonn 61 Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 We had a very dissatisfied Crew Advisor in fact he was the Assistant Council Commissioner for Venturing. He felt that as a council we were not at that time doing enough for Venturing. The Crew was close to the border with Greater Pitt. He said that he was moving the Crew. As far as I know he went Iam not so sure about the crew. I would hope that before you think about moving that you explore everything that can be done to make things better. While you might not be able to get a new Scout Exec. Or change the world. You can make in roads within the District. Really when push comes to shove the role of the Council in the life of a unit is very minimal. I know that as a District Chair. If someone took the time to sit down and explain what was so wrong I would have to do something. While I am just a volunteer and still put my pants on one leg at a time I do represent the district at the Executive Board. The district is the units. Eamonn Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 NO Link to post Share on other sites
eisely 13 Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 BW's answer is certainly simple enough, and I am willing to presume its correctness. I suppose if a chartered organization, without relocating itself, insisted on rechartering with an adjacent council, BSA would ultimately go along rather than lose a unit. I am not at all familiar with how chartering agreements work and BSA national would not want to encourage councils to poach in each others' territories, even if that were feasible. I will tell you of one curious situation. Our district has responsibility for two LDS units in Oakland, California, and Oakland is part of a different council. Apparently this was done to accommodate the local Mormon church structure in some way. I don't think this was a case of somebody wanting to leave a particular council, but was done, only in the last few years, for reasons internal to the LDS church. Link to post Share on other sites
dsteele 20 Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 So much for just lurking on my part. I have to admit that I'll not be gone for the rest of the month, but my time is confined to the times of the day when it's realistically too late to bother DE's or units with membership concerns. Believe it or not, just today we got a revised Registrar Procedure Manual that ordered us to destroy all previous copies. I mention this only because I'm about to draw from the source -- which I read over my lunch -- not because it is a new policy. It is not. As to switching councils, the answer is no, as Bob White has said. Fat Old Guy is correct in that the members would not have to move, but is incorrect in telling the CO to take out a P.O. Box number. The physical location of the chartered partner as it compares to council boundaries is the council in which the charter belongs. It is in bold print that the mailing address has nothing to do with the matter. Therefore, a P.O. Box to RFD 1 in somewhere North Carolina would make no difference if the community center, church, etc. is physically located in Somewhere South Carolina. The advice to work through the system to fix the problems within the local council of the physical location of the chartered partner is good advice. The LDS exception is true and interesting. I have only had to deal with it once and finding out how to do it was a three year process. Basically, the process begins within the LDS Church and is based on the Church's organization of Wards. The Church initiates the request to change councils. The request goes through the originating council and requires the approval of the council Key Three -- President, Scout Executive and Commissioner. The signed form goes to the President, Scout Executive and Commissioner of the receiving council and then to the National Council through the Region for final approval. Membership and unit history move from council to council for records purposes. It is not an easy process and it applies only to the LDS Church. Other than the above, KoreaScouter is right on the money. The things he outlines are possible and as improbable as he describes. DS Link to post Share on other sites
Adrianvs 10 Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 It would seem that the answer depends on what you define a troop as. Is it the numeral, the relation with the council, the members, the equipment, the charter organization, the patrols, or some combination of these? It's obviously a combination, but exactly what may depend upon the circumstances. I live on a geographic council border, so it seems relatively easy to disband a troop and reform one in a community 20 miles away. This doesn't mean that the troop itself has moved (I don't think), just that a new one has formed. In any case, this shouldn't be done lightly as you might simply be trading Louis Bourbon for Maximilien Robespierre, if you catch my drift.(This message has been edited by Adrianvs) Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 " It is not an easy process and it applies only to the LDS Church." Why do the Mormons get such special consideration? Link to post Share on other sites
dsteele 20 Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Question for the group in general and for Scouter Terry: The question was beneath me and I shall not ask. I tire of FOG's negativity. Period. End of report. This message has been edited by Dave Steele to preserve his integrity. Angrily, DS(This message has been edited by dsteele) Link to post Share on other sites
Overtrained 10 Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 " " It is not an easy process and it applies only to the LDS Church." Why do the Mormons get such special consideration? "" I am not a member of the Church of Latter Day Saints, but have some experiance in my district. The units are charterd to the Stake which overseas the wards. The units are operated at the Ward level. If a church restructure happens where a Ward is moved from one Stake to another and the other Stake is in a differant council, then this procedure is used. All the signatures that Dave talks about are used more for record keeping as the council that loses a unit in this manner doesn't have the loss counted against it. Its as if it never existed on their membership records. Vice Versa for the gaining council, it takes the membership history and if the unit has less boys at year end, the gaining council takes the hit. Link to post Share on other sites
dsteele 20 Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Thanks, Overtrained, for the level-headed response. On a more personal note, it was nice to finally meet you Saturday evening. My membership card has arrived and my wife and I will use it on my birthday this month. She's looking forward to the trip. Thanks again. Dave Link to post Share on other sites
Adrianvs 10 Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 "'It is not an easy process and it applies only to the LDS Church.' Why do the Mormons get such special consideration?" I didn't find the question offensive at all. In fact, it came to mind when I first read the post. I didn't ask, however, because I assumed that it wasn't really a special consideration. I imagine that it is the case that it has just been done for the LDS church. I reckon that the BSA would accommodate other bodies per their request. If Catholic dioceses wished to correlate parish troops at the diocesan level with units at the council level, I see no reason that the BSA would not be as accommodating. This is unlikely, as parishes are somewhat more autonomous regarding programs than wards are, but it is possible. Link to post Share on other sites
Twocubdad 665 Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 We had a pack in our district that moved to the adjoining council. They were chartered to a church which built a new building just over the county line in the other council. When the CO moved, the unit moved. Coincidently, it was an LDS church, but to my knowledge the move had nothing with reorganizing the church wards. Under those circumstances, I don't know why any unit wouldn't be allowed to change councils. If you're looking to move for "political" reasons, I'm sure the answer is BW's flat NO. Link to post Share on other sites
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