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Eamonn

Professional Staffing Levels

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Where Can I get my hands on a document that details the recommended professional staffing levels for councils?

Also how are Councils classified?

I am not looking for what staffing level a executive board may have in place. I know that if the board feels that there is a need to hire more proffessionals that they can ask the Scout Exec. to do so.

(I am not picking on professionals, in fact the exact opposite. Due to finances there is talk about letting one of our professioals go. I think this is not such a good idea and would like to have all my ducks lined-up and be able to use this as part of my argument if it fits!!)

Eamonn

 

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Eamonn:

 

I know your respect for professionals and I respect your question. However, there is no easy answer for it.

 

I can probably help you off-line by sending you a list of professional positions by classification, but I have never seen any sort of manual recommending professional staff structure by council size.

 

It seems that a great deal of it is up to the council executive (Scout Executive) and the executive board of the council. Some positions, such as Director of Field Service and Assistant Scout Executive (my title) are up to the permission of the Regional Director -- but I haven't found a source with clear cut information as to the criteria for the position.

 

As to council classification, it is based on total available youth, council budget, professional staff positions, and a few other loosely defined variables I don't completely understand. Sorry I can't help you more. I want to, but don't have the knowledge.

 

Dave

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Basicly I believe it comes down to funding. If the bucks don't come in then they are not there to pay for staff. Now how the money is used is up to the Council Board with strong input from tne Council Exec.

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Here is my problem.

I thought that the "Hiring and Firing" were down to the Scout Exec.

I don't have a problem with that. He was hired to make tough decisions. He was selected by members of the board and from where I come from he is deserving of the support of the board.

As a council we have been meeting our budget. However this is in no small part due to the council receiving bequests.

If we had not there would be a shortfall of about $70,000.00.

The council budget committee has made it clear to the Scout Exec. That he has to come up with a balanced budget.

There is going to be a vote at the next board meeting about letting our Assistant Scout Exec. go.

I don't think that this is a decsion for the board.

We pay the Scout Exec. to do the hiring and firing.

To make matters worse the Assistant Scout Exec. is a very close friend of mine. I would really hate to see him go. I think that he is the hardest working professional that we have.

$70K is a lot of money and I can see that cuts have to be made or more money has to come from somewhere.

Still when I try to get an insight on all of this I keep hearing

"They say A council our size does warrant not a Assistant Scout Exec."

No one will tell me who "They" are.

So I am trying to find out where the people who are telling me this are getting their info.

Eamonn

 

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I feel for your Assistant Scout Executive -- and have to admit that he makes quite a bit more than I do, but he's been there a very, very long time.

 

"They" could refer to certain board members and/or even the Region. To have an Assistant Scout Executive (or at least create the position) is one of two positions in the profession of the BSA that requires the permission of the Regional Director. Director of Field Service is the other.

 

However, the differences vary greatly by council. Our councils are in the same classification and are similar size. Both have Assistant Scout Executives. Many councils our size have Assistant Scout Executives because the usual combinations of Finance Director, Program Director, Field Director can be done by one person because the council is too small to pay for one for each function (the way larger councils often do it.)

 

However, my friend, I don't think a council your size needs a Field Director and an Assistant Scout Executive. I would think from what you have told me that the Assistant Scout Executive ought to be able to supervise all of the district executives and learnign for life and eliminate the position of Field Director.

 

You are correct that it is the Scout Executive's decision -- but the board hires him and if he's instructed to do something by the board and he doesn't . . . he could be the one let go.

 

It's a tough situation. Talk to your fellow board members and let them know your thoughts and those of the district volunteers.

 

Dave

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My earlier responses were sincere. They were also a lot easier to type when it hadn't happened to me yet.

 

The council I currently serve had it's budget meeting with the executive committee last night. They voted that they can not afford an Assistant Scout Executive for the year 2004.

 

I'm not out in the cold, my boss and I get along great and he and I are working to get me placed in another council assignment. I'm not going to give up on a 15 year career with the BSA two days prior to my 38th birthday.

 

Still, it hurts to have to agree with them. The funds aren't there and the United Way cuts for 2004 pretty much sealed my fate.

 

I'm not angry with the Scout Executive. I'm not angry with the officers who voted for the budget cut. Mathematical reality is mathematical reality. There isn't enough money.

 

 

I am a bit angry with the units who do not attend council camps, do not support FOS, do not sell council popcorn or wreaths, and who shop at other council Scout shop.

 

I am angry with them not because if they had done the things I mentioned, I woudln't have to uproot my wife, sell my home, etc. I am angry with them because the reason they didn't participate is "we don't need council" and those people, who tend to be the ones who grouse about the lack of service are going to grouse even louder next year when 5 professionals have to do the work of 6.

 

How are the five supposed to serve more and better than the 6? As I said before, mathematical reality is mathematical reality.

 

DS

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Getting the ax, no matter how nicely they do it, sucks. I hope that you do manage to stay in Scouting but . . . hey! take a job in industry getting twice a much money, donate half the raise to BSA, and do your Scouting as a District Commissioner. Actually, I'm only half joking. You'd be kinda like the guys who leave the Navy and join the Air National Guard to keep flying.

 

"I am a bit angry with the units who do not attend council camps, do not support FOS, do not sell council popcorn or wreaths, and who shop at other council Scout shop."

 

I'll agree with you there.

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Thanks. I guess that's a short cut for what I truly mean to say . . . Thank you.

 

I agree with the Navy vs. National Guard thing -- but I'd prefer to stick with the professional service of the Boy Scouts of America. It's gone beyond what I do to who I am a long time ago.

 

Still, the vote of confidence is appreicated, FOG.

 

DS

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Dave,

Being so skilled in your job, makes it tough to take a lesser job. Been there. You have the knowledge, skills, and the right demeaner for the job you do. I hope you land a job in the great state of Michigan, near the place you want to be. I know in my heart, you will land a new position in the professional ranks, because that's where you need to be. Good Luck my friend, and anything I can do for you by way of letter of recommendation, just let me know.

Dancin

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Dave,

 

Hang in there, I had a job change forced on me similar to the situation you are in, short term it sucked, long term it was the best thing that could have happened.

If there is anything the forum can do, just ask, I know we will support you in any way we can

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Needless to say I can only echo OGE as far as we will do what ever possible.

I would just love it if someone would hire our FD, and it paid enough for you to join out happy little band. Still if wishes were fishes?

It seems that I have been posting a lot about the doom and gloom that we all have faced this year: Membership is down. So much so that the tom-toms are saying that there will be cut backs even at the national level. I have heard that we may be down as many as 100,000 youth? If this is true it isn't hard to do the math 100,000 @ $10.00.

This year here in our council donations were down. In fact only one district met the goal, the same district was the only district to meet its popcorn goal.( Must have something to do with having the best looking DistricChair!!) Many of us seen that things were not going as they ought early in the year but were "put in our place," With sanguine tales and over optimistic predictions. While no one likes to hear "I told you so". At the board meeting this week the report showed that there $30k needed to balance the budget.Thanks to a unanticipated bequest we will be ok. However, looking back over the past few years if it had not been for some sort of a windfall, we would not have had a balanced budget. It is all well and good to stand around and say what didn't happen, but at the end of the day the buck has to stop with the guy at the top. The Scout Executive. He or she has got to take responsibility for the budget and meeting it.

It may be that I am an old fuddy-duddy and there are some that will say that I'm a royal pain in the rear. But I firmly believe that while thinking out of the box is all well and good Scouting works best when we put our efforts into program. If the boys/youth are in a good program they will bring their pals in with them, parents will talk to other parents. Of course the more youth we have to sell popcorn the more popcorn we can sell. The more youth we have the bigger the impact we have in and for the community and the community will then support the program and the council. This may sound very simplistic but it works.

Eamonn

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Hang in there, brother. It's always a sellers' market for quality. I know you'll land on your feet soon.

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Makes me glad to be where am I even with the problems of being in a Large Council. We're growing by leaps and bounds. Of course that also means that the local population is growing by leaps and bounds which has its own problems.

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DSteele,

 

I too, am sure you will land on your feet somewhere and you and your wife will be stronger for the experience. All I can say is I've been where you are and everything that's been said about things will work out and there's always a market for quality turned out to be true for me and I'm sure it will for you also. It's been true for just about anyone that was worth anything that I've known in your situation.

 

Hang in there and keep us posted.

 

SA

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Thanks for the support, folks.

 

I like to think I bounce back quicly.

 

I wish I could give details, but don't want to jinx anything.

 

I spent this afternoon calling Scout Executives around the country. Many councils are cutting their middle management, which makes me wonder who will be around to be Scout Executives in the future, but that's a topic for another thread.

 

At the risk of jinxing my chances at this long shot, does anyone have any information about the Boulder Dam Council headquartered in Las Vegas, NV? My wife and I are interested in that council.

 

DS

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