How Much Basic Skills Should Be Retained

[OneHour]

The obvious answer is "all the time," but ...

 

Just came back from a campout with our troop. I assisted with teaching the new scouts the knots. A Life Scout assisted me. The new boys (ex-Webelos) know their knots! One-handed bowline, two-handed bowline, 2 1/2 hitches, clove hitch, taut-line hitch, square knot, and the sheet bend. So my job was fairly easy, just remind some of them of the more difficult ones. To my surprise my Life Scout did not know (at least didn't remember) most of these knots. A Star scout was in one of my classes. He didn't know the sheetbend nor the sheepshank. I asked him why? He said that he wasn't taught. So I was a little disappointed (that's another story). I found out that most of the older scouts either do not remember any of the knots or wasn't taught the knots! As I notice, they don't know alot of basic skills.

 

So my question is how much basic skills should be retained?

 

Thanks.

 

1Hour

[Bob White]

I think there is a more important question that solves your dilema.

How often are the scouts given situations that require them to know, give them opportunity to practice, or reasons to learn, the skills of the scout handbook?

 

Or did someone teach them a skill, test them, reward them and then move on to the next skill?

 

If the learner hasn't learned, then the teacher hasn't taught. For scouts to learn and retain new skills they need, an application for needing the skill, hands on instruction, opportunities to practice, and a reason for retaining the information.

 

It is the adult leaders responsibility when training junior leaders to teach them how to teach.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[matuawarrior]

In the great Scoutopia, they should retain their basic skills BUT if they rarely use it, then they tend to lose it.

 

In my units, we train to teach a skill and train to retain.

 

I would back track on the scouts who were not taught properly and just give them a refresher class. We do this by age group or patrols preferably by patrols.

 

Each scout is different so we have to look at it individually and not as a whole. If the scout was not trained properly in the troop, then I would ask who signed off on his BSHB. If the trainer did not correctly teach the scout, then I would counsel the trainer, which should be his Patrol Leader. If he was a transferee, then I'll just put him in the refresher class.

 

If the scouts are Jr. Leaders or Star and Life Scouts,who may have forgotten the skills. The best situation for that is have them relearn the skills and then train the scouts who need those same skills.

 

Another great way for Jr. Leaders to retain their basic skills is to remove the Scouters from the Primary trainers and put the Jr. Leaders back as the trainers among their peers. Of course, their will always be exceptions.

 

Constant Patrol competitions in Pioneering, First Aid, Orienteering and other Basic skills will have scouts retain those skills that they sometimes take for granted.

 

Above all Be Flexible and have Fun.

 

Matua

[Mike F]

We noticed the same thing about knots about a month ago, so we're working on a knot refresher series right now. Led by Instructors -- we worked them off-line first to make sure they were up to speed.

 

1st Mtg -- By patrols, practiced basic knots: clove hitch, sheet bend, 2 1/2 hitches, timber hitch.

For fun, we had them run the log-lift event: Gave them two ropes (diff thickness and each too short to use alone). They had to tie sheet bend, toss one end over horizontal beam, tie timber hitch on a short log, and secure it at least 1 foot off ground by tying clove hitch to a stake in ground. Each patrol timed. Added 5 seconds to time for every knot error.

 

2nd Mtg -- Reviewed square and diagonal lashings.

For fun, we ran chariot races. Gave each patrol 3 poles (about 5-6 ft long) and 3 ropes. Had to lash into A-frame with Diag at top and two Sq lashings at bottom. As soon as it was lashed, one boy rode A-frame chariot while others dragged it around a course. First to get back to starting line wins.

 

Tomorrow night -- will review sheer and round lashings.

Then will try out some sample camp gadgets (wash basin in tripod, pack rack, etc.)

 

I cant wait to see what they come up with on our next campout once we get the ideas flowing!

 

[OldGreyEagle]

When did the Sheepshank (the bane of Lemuel Siddons)

become a basic knot?

 

The expression "use it or lose it" really fits here. The more they are used, the less they aer forgotten

[OneHour]

I guess that that my main disappointment lies in the fact that the troop adult leadership did not make any attempt to keep it fresh for the boys. The aim seems to be get the boys through the program as quickly as one could to Eagle(it was SM lead troop ... it's getting better ... I think). Several boys got their Eagles at 12+ to 13! That battle has already been waged in this Forum so I'm not touching that. I guess that I expected more out of the Junior Leaders and much more out of the adult leaders of this troop. Being new to the troop, I guess that I have another view of the troop. See what all of the BSA training has done to me? They make me feel the urge to not leave well enough alone!

 

OGE ... sheepshank is not one of the basics; however, when I teach knots, I like to use it as one of the basic eight that I like for them to know (bowline, two 1/2 hitches, taut-line, square, clove, timber, sheet bend, and sheepshank).

 

Thanks.

 

1Hour

[SMT376Richmond KY]

My young scouts learned this first hand at our recent spring camporee. Being only 3 weeks old as a troop we went to camporee with the expectation that these young men (all 11) would not fair well in the competitions. Therefore, the committee and leaders opted to use the opportunity for some tenderfoot instruction. While having patrol knot relays a group of older scouts 14-16 yera old came by and were chastizing our younger boys that they were too young to be scouts. Having just completed instructions on the taut-line I wasked our boys if they would want to challenge these older boys to a relay. The Scouts inour troop took up the mantle and did indeed challenge these older boys and they accepted.

 

I provided the rules to both troops. We started the relays and when the older boys came forward to tie the taut-line they stated "how do I do this I don't know how." Needless to say our troop of soon to be Tenderfoot scouts beat these "older Scouts" hands down. It was the most remembered part of the trip for our boys. They have all said they will remember their knots for sure. Well time will tell but I am planning on hanging hitching posts to the walls of our Scout building for just such purposes as knot practice.

[Eagledad]

>>Needless to say our troop of soon to be Tenderfoot scouts beat these "older Scouts" hands down.

[SR540Beaver]

Barry,

 

Thank you for your comments. Before anyone gets the idea that I am against knot tying....I am not. But I've had the same thoughts concerning today's technology. Knots can literally be a life saver, but just are not essential in today's environment. If I'm not wearing slip-ons, tying my shoes is about the only time I need to tie a knot on a regular basis. Maybe once or twice a year when I haul junk to the landfill in my pickup. Face it, the boys are in the woods once a month and that is with ring and pin tents. Should we still teach knots as a scouting method? Of course. Should we be surprised when they can't remember six months later after using velcro on their basketball shoes? No. The only way to retain a skill seldom used is to practice, have competitions and have the older scouts train the new scouts.

 

Here is a question for everyone. Who has had a campout where only "old" technology is allowed? Take a bunch of tarps and have the boys build tents and bedding and make bedrolls. No propane for lanterns or cookstoves. It would be quite an experience for them and allow them to put those skills into practical use when it is windy, cold and rainy to have to build a shelter.

[OneHour]

kwc, that's a great idea! Back to the basics! Let's see if it flies with the PLC.

 

Thanks.

 

1Hour

[LauraT7]

KWC -

 

we did that last winter - at least the shelter part - the boys created their own shelter out of tarps and whatever they could find. In teaching "leave no trace' however, meals were on cookstoves and no campfires were allowed, and no cutting of trees or brush.

 

It was a great outing, the boys loved it. Except for one thing.

 

In winter camping, with NO CAMPFIRE - the only way to keep warm once the sun goes down is to get in your shelter and sleeping bag. it made for a LOONNNGGG winter night - going to bed about 7 pm! LOL! the boys were up with the sun in the morning!

 

If we were to do it again on a WINTER campout - I would suggest having a fire for entertainment purposes, at least. If it hadn't been so bitingly cold and windy (-10 or so) we would have done some star hikes; we had brought a telescope - but it was overcast, damp and windy.

 

 

[12Points]

Ah, the dreaded basic skills, or perhaps it's best to call them the survival skills. Face it folks, technology has changed the basic skills a boy needs to learn for today's outdoor adventures and life in general. I have copies of my brother's 5th edition (1948), my 7th edition (copyright date withheld to protect the aging), and the current 11th edition (1998) of the Handbook for Boys, and a quick scan of them makes that point pretty apparent. (a very good handbook history sight is http://www.troop97.net/bshb1.htm). Technology aside, I have to admit my old handbook and pioneering merit badge book were probably the two most useful books I brought with me to the first gulf war. Why? Because technology fails and what we are calling the basic skills become crucial when you are in the wilderness when it does.

So how do we get the boys to retain the skills for if and when they might need them? One way we did it was by not buying framed rain flies, tables, chairs, and other high tech comfort items for our troop. Instead, we bought closet dowels of varying lengths, metal tent poles, thin rail fence rails (not the split variety), and lots of ropes. We loaded this on our trailer when we went out, so no matter where we were camping we had the basic materials to do pioneering projects. Need a table?, lash it. Want to sit down?, make a chair. Want to make sure the boys do it?, break out the pioneering merit badge book and make your own projects in the adult area. Our boys "learned the ropes" so well, they designed and built a pioneering playground for the scout show one year.

I recommend having a local welder make some free standing fire pits as well. Cooking on stoves is here to stay, but knowing how to build a fire and cook on it is pretty important and not as basic as it may seem. Of course, if you're backpacking in, you won't be bringing all these things. I promise you the boys will use materials found on sight and walking sticks to make the basic stuff if they get used to making projects every time they go camping at a drive in sight. On top of learning and retaining the skills, you'll find participation in camping trips will normally increase as well. To paraphrase an old movie: if they build it, they will come.

[SR540Beaver]

What with all the extreme sports and entertainment kids watch today, why not bill the campout as "extreme" camping. We have our venture crews and high adventure these days to try and retain boys. Maybe an extreme survival campout a couple of times a year would spark interest and help retention of skills. It would only take one night of building a shoddy shelter or eating cold beans out of a can to get a boy to remember how to do it right the next time. Then he can go back to school and brag about his survival skills.

 

You know, the chances of any of us getting lost and having to survive in the wilderness is slim, but it does happen. Having those skills can literally be a life saver.

 

Another thought is finding some land that is going to be cleared and arranging for the scouts to camp on it prior to clearing. They can cut and use anything they want to and build lean to's or what ever they need. No worry about leave no trace in that situation. You could even camp in town if a housing development was about to begin and the land was to be cleared.

[Mike F]

kwc57,

 

Great idea about working to get access to land which is about to be cleared. The only way to really practice survival skills is to indulge in a bit of what I call "High-Impact Camping." If your life depended on it, how would you build a shelter, etc.? With so much of our camping in established campgrounds, it's a rare opportunity.

 

On the Gulf Coast, we're plagued by a rampant infestation of Chinese Tallow trees - non-native and very aggressive. We're starting to reach out to land owners with an agreement to cut down as many as we can while we're on their land. It sure cuts across the grain of all our training, but fact is, the tree is an invader and the native trees benefit when we take the tallows out.

 

And you're right on with your original premise -- survival camping puts all the skills to work and it's a lot of fun. Make the object not just to survive, but to thrive, and watch the creativity taking off!

 

By the way, we did our 3rd in a series of events tonight on advanced knots and lashings. Boys got into designing camp gadgets (pack rack, wash stand, table, etc.) and can't wait for the next campout. And the poles we're using? You guessed it -- Chinese Tallows from the field about to be cleared behind our meeting place.

 

-mike

[Eagledad]

>> Cooking on stoves is here to stay, but knowing how to build a fire and cook on it is pretty important and not as basic as it may seem.