It's myth debunking time!

[Bob White 20]

fotoscout,

Just Bob would be fine thank you. As Ed wrote there is nothing in scouting (other than a rumor that will not die) that says you must travel in uniform, and certainly nothing that makes accident protection dependent on being in uniform.

 

For years the BSA program has taught the benefits of being in uniform. One of which is that traveling in uniform helps with behavior, promotes scouting to the general public, and makes it easier to keep track of participants when you get off the vehicle. But at no time has the BSA said you need to be in uniform when traveling to be protected by accident insurance.

 

As far as Tour Permits, You do not need to file tour permits for accident benefits for youth. HOWEVER, if you want to retain liability insurance for the registered adults and the Chartering Organization, then you had better file your paperwork with the council service center.

 

Just Bob

[dsteele 20]

Bob did a good job of answering the insurance question. As to whether you're covered under liability insurance (the stuff comes into play when there's a law suit,) let me answer a question with a question. The question is -- Do you want to give BSA attorneys an excuse to not represent you?

 

As to the OA chapter being required to have the same name as the district. There is no such requirement, unless the Scout Executive makes it one. The OA lodge exists at the pleasure of the Scout Executive. He is the Surpreme Chief of the Fire.

 

When I was staff advisor, I once asked my Scout Executive if he wanted me to have the Lodge Chief present the lodge's charter to the executive board. He said, "Don't do that. It's the only power I've got!" He was kidding. Instead, we had the lodge chief present the charter to the Scout Executive in a nice ceremony at our spring fellowship.

 

DS

[KoreaScouter 13]

How about:

 

"You can't carry a knife/matches unless you're carrying your totin' chip/firem'n chit"

 

KS

[hops_scout 9]

Technically, your not supposed to carry a pocketknife w/o your Totin Chit (or Whittling Chip in Cub Scouts) but I doubt many worry about it too much.

[dsteele 20]

The answer to KoreaScouter's question is either found or not found on the back of the respective cards.

 

I don't happen to have either card with me at the moment, which means I can neither add weight or detract credibilaty from the myth at the moment. It also means I probably shouldn't be using my zippo st the moment either.

 

DS

[KoreaScouter 13]

Hops_Scout:

 

"Technically"? According to what? There's no language in the G2SS that requires units issue either card to their Scouts or that they carry them; or in the SM Handbook; or in the Scout Handbook. The Totin' Chip itself (don't have a Firem'n on me) has a proclamation on the front, signed by the unit leader, and a list of responsibilities on the back, signed by the Scout. None of the responsibilities includes carrying the card if you're carrying a knife.

 

So, the training's an advancement requirement that has to be completed before a Scout can "tote". But, the card itself is not a requirement, administrative or otherwise; it's an option. Now, the cards are good management tools, especially at district events where you don't know all the Scouts...and our Troop issues them, too. What I don't do is confiscate knives & matches if a lad forgot his, it's in his tent, or he washed the darn things with his pants. I don't issue free replacements, though -- I charge him the 8 cents...a responsibility thing!

 

I've seen leaders from other units confiscate knives if the lad didn't have his card with him...even if he did have his handbook, was signed off on the requirements, and was using the tools properly. Doesn't make sense, and takes the fun out of this, in my opinion.

 

The title of the thread is "...myth debunking...". The cards are available, and most troops use them, but...

 

KS

[silver-shark 10]

KS

 

The Firem'n Chit has similar wording to that of the Totin' Chip.

 

It sounds like hops' troop has a policy similar to one that our troop has regarding how they monitor those that are exercising safety, and adhering to the Outdoor Code in these situations.

 

We still cut off a corner, or more for serious offences, and therefore demand to see the cards of all violators. When all 4 corners are gone those particular rights are suspended. At that time they don't only forfeit any offending equipment to be collected by their parents, but have to retake the appropriate course, (5 page Q&A session for each) AND have to teach it to at least one other scout to receive a new card and regain their suspended rights.

 

We won't take the book requirement away once it is earned, but since the appropriate rights could be suspended we won't look at the book as proof of their rights.

 

We don't go looking for scouts to harass about whether they have their card with them or not, but if they act unwisely there will be consequences to be paid. If they don't have the card, their rights may be already suspended, and we will err' on the side of caution when it comes to safety.

[Bob White 20]

The four corner thing on the Totin chip card is a myth that has amused me since I was a scout in the 60s. If I understand it right, I am allowed to misuse a sharp tool three times with no problem but on the the fourth misuse of the tool I get a consequence?

 

I tried to get the same deal from my parents. "tell you what dad if I disobey you three times nothin happens but on the fourth time you can punish me." he didn't buy it. So I went to my teacher. "tell you what Mrs. Martin, If I forget my homework you tear a corner off my report card. If you take the fourth corner then it affects my grade." No deal.

 

But my scoutmaster... I can mishandle an ax 4-times before they take my card away. No not that... not my card?

 

This is a tradition of scouting. Read that as, 'if you do something wrong long enough it becomes a habit (tradition)'. What makes the fourth misdeed any worse than the third. More importantly how many times will we let a anyone endanger themselves or someone else with the misuse of a tool before we step in and re-train them. I hope for safety's sake everyone answered "once".

 

My opinion,

Bob White

 

 

[dan 10]

Bob

So is you cannot carry a knife without a totin chit a myth or a rule a troop should have themselves?

 

I almost cut a corner of a totin chit card off once, then I heard (yes heard) your voice in the background saying ONCE IS OKAY BUT 4 TIMES IS'NT? So I had a little talk with the scout instead.

 

Hopefully I will start to hear Dsteeles voice also!(This message has been edited by dan)

[silver-shark 10]

Dan

 

It's a myth that works, so we made it a policy.

 

Bob White

 

Believe me. The majority of offences are an automatic 4 corners. If they are already missimg a corner when they make a 4 corner offense, that fifth one goes onto the next card to start with.

 

We probably focus more on the little things that most scouters overlook. An old employer of mine used to say of business, "if you take care of the pennies and nickels, the dollars will take care of themselves."

 

When we focus on little things that are commonly overlooked, the boys are automatically more focussed on the big things and they don't happen.

[silver-shark 10]

Hey Bob White

 

Talk more about your #2, and #3 favorite myths. As I See it, many scouters try to use the attendance as part of the Scout Spirit since there doesn't appear to be a definition of an active scout for advancement.

 

I have heard the one about merely being registered to be considered an active scout. It came from the ASM father of a boy that was preparing for his Eagle Ceremony. The boy had not attended a meeting or any other a ctivity for 2 years other than the 5 minutes he addressed a Court of Honor looking for his Eagle Project volunteers. 2/3 of the boys in attendance didn't even know who he was.

[Bob White 20]

Rather than read it from me check out the Boy Scout handbook. It explains what the Scout Spirit really means and what 'active' is.

 

Then let us know what you discovered.

 

Bob White

[FScouter 24]

Once again we "learned" at roundtable last night that boys are not allowed to use or handle white gas. And that the reason for this is "insurance purposes". The truth is that there are rules for the use of liquid fuels, but there is not a blanket prohibition. The G2SS clearly states that "knowledgeable adult supervision must be provided".

[ASM514 10]

An exeption to the original myth is: A Venture Crew which may adopt any style or garb they choose by vote of the members to serve as the official uniform of the Venture Crew. Ours is Black on Black BDU's. Muck like a night para-military. But they could have just as easily chosen camo. And that is not a myth.

 

ASM514

[ASM514 10]

An exeption to the original myth is: A Venture Crew which may adopt any style or garb they choose by vote of the members to serve as the official uniform of the Venture Crew. Ours is Black on Black BDU's. Much like a night para-military. But they could have just as easily chosen camo. And that is not a myth.

 

ASM514