I am so fed up and disgusted I am ready to quit SCOUTS!

[scoutldr]

Maybe I missed it, but nowhere in your posts do I see a mention of a Chartered Organization. They are the ones who "own" the unit...not the parents, leaders, boys, district or council, and they are the ones to address your concerns when the COmmittee won't. THey are the ones who have the fiduciary responsibility to ensure that finances are handled properly, with the proper checks and balances of authority and proper audits. If they are a non=profit organization, under IRS rules (which may or may not apply in Okinawa???), there are laws that govern this, since the unit is an extension of the organization. If, as I suspect, the unit is chartered to a military organization, the Commanding Officer of the base has the legal responsibility to ensure that everything on his base is conducted according to the rules (i.e., no embezzlement). This applies to the Wives' Clubs, the Recreation facilities, the Coffee Mess, and even the scout units under his cognizance, and there is (or should be) some Junior Officer who has the collateral duty of auditing those accounts. If you have evidence or suspicion of illegal activity (such as embezzlement), a call to the base criminal investigative office may be in order. Find a local JAG officer and have an informal chat over coffee. As to the CM using camping equipment, the Pack does not own the equipment, OR the money...the Chartered Organization does, and only they can authorize use of their property for purposes other than for which they were procured. IF the pack and troop are chartered to the same org, then the matter seems a moot point whether the equipment is used on a Pack outing or a Troop outing.

 

As to awards, if I had waited for someone to "put me in" for awards, I wouldn't have any, either. Your Pack Trainer (NOT Advancement Chair who has nothing to do with adult training awards) should be making sure every leader has the application form for the knot suitable to their position, but then it's up to the leader to follow through and get the required signatures. A lot of the leaders I know don't bother because it's not important to them to have a decorated uniform. A lot of the leaders I know just wear their Eagle knot, if they earned it, even though they are eligible for 3-4 rows of knots. It's a personal choice depending on how much sewing you want to do (my wife refuses to do it for me!).

 

Just a few ideas from a non-lawyer.

[Bob White]

Sorry Joni,

 

I reread you original post and did find where you said you were advancement chair. I got kind of lost in your letter it jumped between pack and troop frquently.

 

I am disappointed you feel you can be objective when are are personally involved. By definition that pretty much eliminates objectivity. When people are involved there is always "another side" of the story.

 

I think Eamon raised some excellent points.

 

Good Luck,

Bob White

 

[Joni4TA]

Hi Bob White and Scoutldr,

 

Bob White, I am sorry about junping from Pack to Troop... for me, it's all one organization, and because I am deeply involved and passionate in both units they do spill over into each other's business. It's also the same "problem folks" in both units that I deal with.

 

Scoutldr, Listen with regard to the knots and awards, I think I need to clarify something... it's not that I don't think the CM and ACM or anyone else that wears them does not deserve the awards because they doe and should wear them proudly. Definitely many prefer not to wear them (one being my husband who knows very well the importance of medals and uniforms, being in the Marine Corps for 25 years!) The point I was trying to make is that they are only out for themselves. It would have been just as easy to go over the requirements with every Tiger Leader, Den Leader, Webelo Leader, and Committee Member and see to it that everyone who was deserving received their knots, too.

 

The "PACK TRAINER" you speak about is also the ACM and he could care less about anyone or anything if doesn't have something to do with himself or his children. (The "What am I going to get out of it mentality" I keep talking about) You're absolutely correct, the Advancement Chair (ME) shouldn't have to be concerned with putting Leaders in for knots. But our CC had no idea what they were, and 5 out of 8 of our inexperienced, untrained Leaders also are not aware that knots and things exist for them. I wanted to see to it that these unselfish and dedicated leaders received some recognition for their hard work in our unit.

 

Along with the knots I was going to get the Youth Protection video from District and see to it they all got that training as well. Some have been leaders for over a year and never had any training, including YP. It's definitely not my responsibility but how long should one sit back and wait for a volunteer to "do their job" with good conscience? Perhaps I should just sit back and wait for the good turns of our leaders to go un-noticed as well as the children in the Pack AND TROOP that aren't the CM and ACM's children? I can't do that. It's just like sitting around with a boy who's in definite need of the Scouting program and ignoring him because he's not the brightest bulb in the box or not the strongest. My good conscience won't let me do that either. Neither will the ideals of the BSA!

 

Did I mention that from June 2002 through March 2003, the ONLY boys to receive advancements were the children in the dens of the CC, CM and ACM? The CM and ACMs sons received their religious medals here... and one of the boys actually said, "I DID?" The CM and ACM go through and check things off they think their kids have done and the boys don't even get the benefit of being made aware they've done a requirement. Instead they're shocked when they're given awards. Is that what we've come to with the BSA? Just hand over awards like they mean nothing?

 

The same two adults claim they took my son in the Troop through their Totin' Chip requirements over a weekend campout. The next week my son asked his father if he would show him how to sharpen a knife. Apparently while the CM and ACM were "teaching" the boys, there was no sharpening stone, so they just "bypassed that requirement" and "checked it off"... and this is the 3rd Year WEBELOS program they want to run! In my opinion, it's more like a Tiger program! I want MY Scout to LEARN something for what he's earned, not be handed awards because it makes me look like a good leader/adult/parent!

 

Until I got with every leader and every boy and went through their handbooks, with the parents.... not one Leader knew even HOW to put their den in for awards let alone what awards were available. Good Pack Trainer we have huh? We spent over $350 in April just on advancements alone (badges, belt loops, Sports/Academics pins) and for that I was resented, too. As if... how dare I spend "THEIR" money and give awards to kids other than the chosen few... that's the attitude I got!

 

Anyway, I don't feel me sticking around with this Pack/Troop (with the same CRO) will do any good. I am one person without a child in the Pack (there may be 2-3 of us), outside the inner circle where there are 4-5 adult leaders and each have at least 2 children in the Pack, some 3. My husband and I make 2 people in the Troop with one son in, another ASM makes 1 person with two boys in the Troop. Then there are 4-5 ASMs with about 6 boys total.

 

We're outnumbered, I can't fix them, and I am not going to try to blackball these people or give them a bad name either. They can run their Pack AND TROOP, the way they want... I just refuse to be a part of it! And as I said before, I choose to leave because there is a difference of opinion and understanding between myself and some members of the Admin. regarding Scouting ideals, BSA policies and the implementation of the BSA program, as well as how finances should be handled according to BSA policy.

 

I cannot, in good conscience, remain a part of these units and allow my family to be a part of these units, either. It would be going against every one of my morals and personal codes, as well as (I believe) every single goal of the BSA!

[le Voyageur]

Joni,

 

Been down that road you're now on most recently and know your frustrations. Got really tired and frustrated myself dealing with the the Professionals and Volunteers at the Council/District level, along with their merit badge mill summer camp that I had to call it quits....however, this break from scouting did allow me to refocus and see my efforts in a new light, and the solution was simple, I kissed the local Council goodbye, and signed on with another that is pro high adventure, and looking for older boy programs. I'm now creating a new program for the upcoming Fall season for Venture Crews since the traditional camporee does little for them...feels good to have the shackles off.

Thus, my advice would be to consider moving your efforts, passion and talents over to another unit; or better yet, consider a position as the Advancement Chair at the District or Council level where you can set the standards, and hold the unit leaders feet to the fire....

[SR540Beaver]

le Voyageur,

 

Always good to see you! I hope you will bless us with your presence more often.

 

Bob White,

 

No, a person can't be completely objective when they are one of the parties involved. That does not mean there is no truth in what Joni says. These guys are Class A jerks. Would you want your son in this pack or troop? Would you do nothing to attempt to get them with the program you love so much?

 

Joni,

 

I've been there and done that with a baseball team. It is one of the reasons we are not in baseball anymore. The coach coolected fees and handled the checkbook. No one was allowed to know how the money was spent. The fees were high in order for a couple of out of town tournaments to be played in that never materialized. No explanation of why there wasn't enough money. We had a great team. We played the whole season undefeated in both league and tournament. We took first place in every tounament we played in. We won the state title. My son played his heart out. He would do anything the coach asked of him, even play positions he had never practiced for. He was never a discipline problem. Made every practice and every game. I ran the dugout and the teams web page. My son played 95% of all the innings for the season. The coach liked winning. He liked the recognition. He wanted to keep winning at any cost. So at the end of the season he dumped my son and two other players for kids he recruited. My son was 7 years old. Try explaining to a 7 year old that he can't play the game he literally loved on the team anymore with all of his buddies. I remember hin looking at me with tears in his eyes and telling me, "but Dad, I EARNED my position on the team!" He did, and he was a very good player. I had to explain to him that he did nothing wrong, life is sometimes unfair and it was all about his coach's ego and wanting the recognition. Eventually, he cut other boys and lost other boys whose families finally saw the light and left on their own. Now, three years later, the coach and assistant coach only have their two sons as original players of the team. And while they think highly of themselves for all the winning seasons they have, they are dispised by most other players and coaches. They are jerks too, just like your CM and ACM. Hang in there, finish the job for the boys and then find a new home where you can be of service and be appreciated.

[Bob White]

KWC57,

 

I am just suggesting that in order to discover the real problem and suggest a remedy it would helpful to know the other side of the story (and when other people are involved there is always another side of the story).

 

Joni's post suggests she is right and everyone else is wrong, which may indeed be the case. But not all of her views are correct either (such as voting on a scoutmaster). I appreciate that she feels objective in her story but she is also has great emotion about it and is personally involved so she cannot help but be subjective in her point of view. If the problem really is that she is right and everyone else is wrong then she has a very tough battle.

 

It is doubtful that anything we post here will help her to change other people. Counseling at its best can only change the person being counseled. It can help them to change who they are to change relationships with others, or to accept the other people for who they are and better understand the relationship.

 

It sounds as if the scouters who are leaving have realized this. Since they cannot change the people, they are looking to form new relationships with others. Perhaps this is Joni's solutiion as well.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Joni4TA]

Well, I said "I AM TRYING TO BE AS OBJECTIVE AS I POSSIBLY CAN"... but I also know it's almost impossible to be objective in this situation, definitely. However, I have understood that there is nothing I can change except myself. And that's what I have done; changed what I can and left the rest behind. I will post a few replies I have received from other Pack leaders (Den Leaders, Committee Chair and future Comm. Chr.) who have been made aware of my resignation, as well as our District Commisioner and you can make up your own mind on who's telling the truth and who's not. I will also post a reply I received from the ACM's wife.

 

First let me say, my family went to our new Troop meeting tonight. IT WAS ABSOLUTELY REFRESHING! We made the right choice! We are all ecstatic! With us came another ASM and his two sons. So we're all FIRED UP about scouting once again... for this I would trade nothing and don't regret anything, and I mean anything.

 

First my resignation, went to the entire Pack Leadership, Senior District Scout Executive, our District Commisioner, and the Troop Leadership as well:

My reasons for leaving the Troop are several, the general idea is that the

current Troop leadership and myself seem to have a profound difference in

the understanding of BSA scouting ideals, BSA policies and the overall

implementation of the BSA program. I believe Boy Scouts is a program for ALL

boys that have registered in a unit, and not just a select few based on who

the leadership approves of. I have watched a new patrol receive their

"Scout" rank while other, older patrols go neglected and do not have the

Scout rank, nor will current Leadership look out for their interests. I

believe there should be more Troop structure according to the fundamentals

of Scouting for the benefit of all the boys in the Troop and less emphasis

on what the leaders want for one particular patrol, the one their kids are

in. That is selfish and appalling to me and I am disgusted watching this

behavior come from grown men. There is more but that's the basics, and I

want my son to have a fair BSA program and I want the entire Troop to be

unified. I also don't want to see my son's Troop molded by people who I

don't feel are concerned with the best interests of the Troop in it's

entirety.

 

On to Pack business... I will tell you this- there have been two people in

the Pack that have consistently provided me with support, cooperation, have

treated me without prejudice and have encouraged my continued involvement

within the Pack. Those two would be you, and Jennifer Bell. Recently a few

other Den Leaders that I have had the pleasure of meeting and working with

have also been encouraging and shown me that there are reasons to keep

volunteering and there is no need to feel like I have the word sucker

written on my forehead for no reason. =) Just kidding! =) Seeing the smiles

on boys who receive an award, a thank you from an appreciative Pack/Den

leader, a leader who learned something new from me or was informed of

something new or was just grateful to be included by me was enough to

sustain me in the Pack for the last seven months.

 

However, there are just as many situations dealing with other members of the

Pack administration that are outweighing the positive and are very

disturbing. There is a lot of Semper "I" -ism that goes around in this Pack

that is entirely unnecessary. New (and old) Parents and Leaders feel

unwelcome, are excluded, talked about, and even ridiculed behind their backs

for their lack of involvement or their lack of experience, or both. I was

under the impression most of our leaders were trained or that the importance

of training was emphasized upon the leaders. With the exception of myself,

maybe 3, or possibly 4 leaders in this Pack have received any training. The

ones that have the training brag about it.... but don't encourage others to

also be trained.

 

I have seen very special and difficult awards to achieve, simply handed out

to boys without the boys ever even realizing they've worked on any of the

requirements. I have watched leaders put themselves in to receive awards and

brag about how many they have and how much Velcro they need to display them,

without consideration to other leaders and the fact that these leaders, too

may have unknowingly earned a leadership award and will never know about it

unless someone tells them. The leaders that do the bragging don't encourage

or welcome growth of new and inexperienced leaders at all. Most of these

instances have occurred within an inner circle of adult leaders. And the

feeling among many adult parents and leaders is that this Pack and the way

it is run is focused solely on what will benefit this inner circle, the

leaders in the inner circle, and the scouts of those leaders in the inner

circle.

 

Some leaders and many parents don't show up to leader/parent meetings simply

because they feel only "the chosen few" will be making the decisions, and

their voices and opinions do not matter anyway. As was seen in the last

leader meeting we had, the more voices that were spoken, the more furious a

certain leader became because he wasn't able to dominate and control the

outcome of decisions being made. Certain leaders feel that unless a parent

is willing to volunteer for a position, they should have no "say-so" in what

happens in the Pack. That attitude is wrong. Not everyone is meant to be a

volunteer. Not everyone can spare the time. If they have a child in this

Pack (and in my case, even those that don't), it is THEIR PACK, TOO! And

they should be afforded some degree of mutual respect and be assured that

the Scouting program that will be provided will be a good and organized one

for all the boys in the Pack, not a program based solely on each parent's

level of involvement.

 

I watched an entire den of boys be wronged by our unit. Able and current

Pack leadership refused to provide leadership to them. Apparently an

adequate Den leader wasn't able to combine these 3-4 boys into his own den

of the same rank on the basis of "waiting until a parent steps up"......

part of our Cub Scout Promise, "To help other people"... was left out of his

reasoning, as well as part of the Law of the Pack, "The Pack helps the Cub

Scout grow"..... enough said on that issue. We refunded these boys' dues and

probably lost their interest in Scouting and the BSA, forever, as a result

of this situation. I would love to say we all learned from the experience

but something tells me there are a couple leaders who still believe it isn't

their problem and there was nothing they could (or would) do to help prevent

it and they did nothing wrong.

 

Again, I can easily say that I will be leaving the Pack for the same reasons

I leave the Troop, and because of the same people more or less. We have very

distinct differences in the understanding of scouting ideals, BSA policy and

the implementation of the BSA programs within the Pack. There has been

ineffective support and cooperation from two of the main leaders in this

Pack with regard to my position as Advancement Chair. The manner in which

the financial Pack records have been kept by key members of the Pack

leadership is atrocious to me and I can't conceivably and in good conscience

remain voiceless about it. To allow it to continue would be to accept it and

since I cannot accept nor change it myself, I cannot support it any longer

either. I will hope after my resignation, the Pack's Treasurer will attend

training and this coming Scout year will show marked improvement with regard

to finances for the sake of the boys in this unit. I believe it is also a

conflict of interest for any Cub Master to be married to a Treasurer. Given

the condition financial records were kept in this past scouting year, as a

committee member (even though I am on my way out), I cannot agree to the

continued service of our current Treasurer without her being trained first.

I also believe it would be in the Pack's best interest to find someone other

than the spouse of the Cub Master to fill this position.

 

I have strong convictions about the role of Cub Master and Assistant Cub

Master. While I do believe the current people in those positions are

qualified, able and willing to be in the positions, I don't believe their

interests follow those of all the boys in the Pack, and rather coincide more

with their own interests and those of their inner circle alone. I also don't

believe the current level of Pack organization by these two leaders is

sufficient enough to handle the needs of all registered boys in the Pack.

Pack Meetings should bring all dens together to feel like they are part of a

bigger family than those that meet in their weekly den meetings. The last

Pack meeting I felt this happened was in October for our Costume Contest,

and possibly the Blue and Gold Banquet. I have yet to see any Den be

encouraged to do a skit, sing a song, or show off what they've done in their

den at a Pack Meeting by our Cub Master or Asst. Cub Master. Perhaps that is

expecting too much? There was a Den that had a skit prepared after the

Pinewood Derby. I informed our Cub Master but apparently he had other

commitments both before and after the Pack Meeting and we turned that Den's

Skit away as a result. I was excited about the skit and the Den had worked

hard on it. How would you have felt if you were that Den Leader and those

boys?

 

I also believe the Cub Master and Asst. Cub Master's recent involvement in

the Boy Scout Troop has left the Pack seriously lacking the necessary

leadership of a Cub Master and Asst. Cub Master. We have been short leader

counts to simply attend District functions. Instead, our two main Pack

leaders have volunteered their service with the Troop, where we've had more

than enough adult participation for District events. I was informed on

Friday that our Cub Master has submitted his name and is interested in

becoming the Troop Scout Master. I believe I now understand why there was

such a cloud of confusion in our last Pack leader meeting regarding who was

going to be named Cub Master. Our Cub Master doesn't want to divulge that he

would rather be the Scout Master. Instead there was deception and him-hawing

about who was doing what and who wanted what position, to the disgust of

most of the other Pack Leadership in the meeting. Both Cub Master and the

Asst. Cub Master knew full well what the intentions were and instead of

spitting out the truth, wanted to play a guessing game. We were in a mature

forum of adults and the games should have been left at home. To add to that,

at the same meeting, there was an additional Leader who raised his hand and

showed an interest in the Cub Master position. He was completely disregarded

as a viable Cub Master option and the current Cub Master and Asst. Cub

Master insisted they would either be "trading hats in December" or their

positions would remain as is. I also believe a reason our current Cub Master

wants to stay in his position until December is because that would be when

the time required to earn his Cub Master knot (a personal award) will be

met. In truth, it isn't their decision at all who is or isn't the Cub Master

or Asst. Cub Master, and is rather the Pack Committee's decision and the

Chartered Organization Rep.'s decision who is appointed Cub Master or any

other position within the unit, Pack or Troop. Again, I point to who is

following their own self-interests without regard to the best interests of

the Pack.

 

As far as advancements go, we all know the only dens that have really and

truly received advancements consistently have been those with a key member

of Pack Leadership who is a parent or Den leader. I believed I could make a

difference with that. But I was met with so much ridiculous and unnecessary

resistance, treated as if I was meddling in a leader's personal business,

complained about, ridiculed and talked about behind my back, refused

cooperation and support in my efforts, told I "shouldn't send emails to

everyone and their brother".... I have been left appalled. The same

Leadership that insists "if you want a say-so, what position are you going

to volunteer for in the Pack?".... well I certainly volunteered and have

done my best to see I do what is expected from a Pack Committee Member and

Advancement Chair, however if the way the Cub Master and Asst. Cub Master

have welcomed my efforts is what any parent or volunteer should look forward

to with their deeper involvement in this Pack, I would recommend not

bothering at all. It's not worth the headache! I was appointed into a

position in this Pack and then resented for trying to do that job with

almost every effort. I have tried to apply the Cub Scout Motto- DO YOUR

BEST. I suppose I have done my best.... the best one can do given the

circumstances, but I will not play the games associated with trying to get

the results and cooperation here.

 

The final breaking point of my Cub Scout spirit with this Pack (this week)

was when efforts were put forth to find a temporary leader for a Bear den

while the Leader and Asst. Leader were deployed. After a week and frequent

communication with both of you, we collectively decided since parents in the

den were unable or unwilling to lead in the interim, we should ask a sister

Den Leader. This was done by me in email. I asked the leader in the sister

Den with the least amount of active boys. And as I understand it (correct me

if I'm wrong), our future Comm. Chair discussed my asking briefly with the

sister Den Leader and as she explains it, he didn't seem all too interested

in taking the extra boys on. Because of this and because he never returned

my email regarding the issue, I took that as lack of interest (with complete

understanding) and called upon another Den Leader who just crossed his boys

over to the Troop. He had no den to lead. He agreed to lead the Den in the

interim and I agreed to help him as his Assistant. I informed our Committee

Chair, future Committee Chair, Cub Master and the sister Den Leader. The

response I received from the Cub Master was short, but instead of being

thankful that the Den Leader and myself had stepped up to the plate, he

insisted he had spoken to the sister Den Leader (the disinterested one) and

"he said he didn't have a problem with that. See what he says now," was the

exact wording. This, to me, implied that either my future Committee Chair's

understanding of the sister Den Leader's interest in extending his den was

way off (which I do not believe) or that the Cub Master didn't feel myself

and the Den Leader who finally did volunteer were worthy of the task or he

simply didn't want us to lead the den. I have still not heard from the

sister Den Leader. I replied by email to the Cub Master explaining what our

future Comm. Chair had relayed to me about her discussion with the sister

Den Leader and his probable disinterest. I have yet to hear from the Cub

Master on the issue again so I assume I am still obligated where I promised

the absent Den Leader I would make sure his boys remained active.

 

I have spoken to the Den Leader (Tom Clough) who has agreed to lead the Bear

Den, with me as Asst. Leader, while the regular leaders are deployed. We are

set to commence with meetings on Tuesday, May 6 at 6:30pm. If there is any

strong objections to this by the Pack, please let me and the other leader

know so that we (or I) can make other plans. When the regular Den

Leader/Asst. Den Leader return from deployment, this will end my tenure with

Pack 110 (probably around June 1 or so). I will still make sure the Tiger

Recruitment flyers get passed out to our Kindergarten boys this week also.

And let me know if there is anything else I can do for this month. This also

should not interfere with my running the Summer Day Camp program this July.

I may need your assistance some with that Jennifer, and will still be

looking for some input from Jack O'Toole as well.

 

Unfortunately this will mean I won't stay on to be the Pack Popcorn Kernal,

either. I am sure you'll find someone who will do just fine. (At least I

hope so.) In the meantime, I will give Jennifer everything I have Pack

related, keys to hut, advancement drawer-thingy, records, paperwork, etc. I

will begin forwarding Pack advancement needs to you, Jennifer, if that's

okay? It's just an assumption but I figured you would be handling it until

someone else was recruited? Let me know because I have recently received an

email from Beckey Eibert (yesterday) and I have not answered her because I

have been in deep thought trying to come to a conclusion about this whole

ordeal. I don't mind helping you at all Jenn, with anything, so please don't

think you can't come to me when Mary Anne isn't here or whatever, if you

have a question about anything Scout related or anything else. I believe,

regardless of our involvement in the Pack, we also formed friendships here.

And I respect both of you in that regard as well as for your selfless

efforts and willingness to work with me and all involved in Scouting.

 

I am sorry to go and I am filled with sadness. I do know that I just can't

and won't deal with the games any longer. I will never leave Scouting

because it is a deep passion and I am very involved in it and always will

be. I just can't see my love for the BSA program and my expectations of the

BSA for these boys be degraded and misrepresented by a few bad apples who

may spoil the whole bunch, any longer. I wish you both luck. And I am sure I

will see you around sometimes. I will still be involved at the District

Level and with the new Troop my family is moving to so I will see you at

Roundtables. I understand if it will cause too many problems for you to

continue to travel with me to the meetings or whatever. You both have boys

in the Pack and Troop still. I don't want things to become uncomfortable for

them or you in either unit. And I have seen how ruthless people can be and

how others can become the brunt of tasteless jokes simply because a few

people don't like them. I won't resort to that immaturity level. I'm not

perfect but I'm not willing to revert to Junior High again either! =)

 

Take care Ladies! Talk to you soon!

 

Yours In Scouting,

Joni Fortier

 

 

AND THE REPLIES:

 

From a Pack Den Leader:

 

Joni,

First, I want to say thank you for all that you did

this year for our Cub Scouts. I know one thank you

doesnt cover it, but truly your work, and interest,

and excitement, were, and are appreciated.

Second, thank you for having the courage, and the

respect for yourself, and BSA to say all that you

said. It is something that I have never had the

courage to speak up about, though I wanted to! I have

kids who LOVE Cub Scouting, and wake up thinking of

it, and go to bed planning what to do tomorrow. For

that I kept my mouth shut...I have made the mistake in

the past of treating certain leaders, and their

spouses like grown ups, and then realized when it was

too late that their maturity level was equal to that

of the grade they taught. Anyway...I figured the less

problems the better.

Third, I want you to know that Mary Anne, and yourself

are the only people in the Pack who have ever helped

me or my husband, and this was our second year

involved with this Pack. It is a shame to be loosing

you-and Mary Anne- you are the kind of people I want

my children to emulate...not the current ?leadership?.

 

 

From the current Committee Chair:

Hey Joni!

I completely understand your feelings and I agree with

what Jennifer wrote. I would prefer to sit down and

talk w/ you for a while at some point but today is out

as I have to work. Maybe tomorrow afternoon we could

meet for a coffee at that place next to NFCU? Or I

could come there or whatever. I think you deserve

more than an email from me for all the stuff you've

done and I think I can tell from the tone of your

email (and I HOPE I am not misreading that) that we

can remain friends despite this mess.

 

I truly regret this has happened and both the Pack and

Troop are the ones losing out which means it's the

boys loosing out and that makes me sick. I think some

others have forgotten that the focus of this stuff is

the boys.

 

Well, I need to get my son's shirt ironed before he

leaves for school as he's got a concert today and just

gave me the laundry last night... is that a boy for

you or what?!

 

Take care and let me know if tomorrow afternoon would

work out for you.

 

 

From the future Comm. Chr (Now Secretary):

 

Dear Joni,

It is with deep regret that I accept your resignation from the pack. I

understand your complaints, and unfortunately, believe they are valid. I am

taking my new assignment as Committee Chair of the Pack seriously. There are

steps that I want to put into place that I hope will bring a sense of fun

and unity back to Pack 110. The term "clique" has been used by a number of

people over the past two years to describe our pack leadership. It is high

time we get away from that mentality and open up the adult leadership to

more people and let them get involved and be a part of the team.

Yes, you may turn over your advancement records to me, and I will DO MY

BEST to keep up the records until such time that we get a new advancement

chairman for the pack. I will also help you with the Summer Day Camp -

although with my extreme sensitivity to sun, can't promise that I can sit

out there in the broiling sun in July to help for the entire day. However,

helping out with behind the scenes work, ahead of time (out of the sun) is

with in reason for me.

Thank you for the hard work and effort that you have put in our scouting

program this year, both for the pack and the troop. I have welcomed your

wisdom and experience, and sense of volunteerism.

 

From our District Commissioner:

 

Joni,

 

Thank you for including me on this email. I need to know your side of the

story (as I do all sides). I am truly sorry that the Pack and Troop will be

losing such seasoned and valuable volunteers. I'm confident, though, that

our Lord will lead you both to a Scouting home where you'll be welcomed,

comfortable, and appreciated.

 

In the meantime, I assure you that I'll continue to work and pray for

positive Scouting experiences for ALL boys in the Pack/Troop, as well as

inspiring and strong role models in leadership positions who personify

Scouting's highest ideals.

 

In His Service,

 

From another Den Leader:

 

Joni,

I am sorry that you are leaving the pack. It is certainly pack 110's loss. You are a very giving person to have taken the job on at all.

 

From the ACM's wife:

 

I just read your email. I am so upset. I do not claim to know any of

the ins and outs, but when you talk about my husband the way you did, it

does involve me. He is a good man who has dedicated almost 3 years to

the pack. For you to say he is in it for his boys only, is ABSURD! Did

you ever think that he was excited for his boys, that he worked hard for

them, in all the dens he works on, to earn what they rated? I think your

comments have had a huge impact on me, more so than on my husband. I

truly wish you and your family all the best, and hope that you feel

better having criticized and slammed my husband. It is sad that you

have no idea the type of person he is. You truly have missed out on a

wonderful scout leader and person. I will not comment on anything else.

The pack is growing, and if no one else will step up to the plate then I

know that the same few will do all that they can. He has given up many

hours of family time to work on Scouts. One more thing, no one can make

you feel uncomfortable or unwanted unless you let them! As you say, we

are all adults.

Good luck to you and your family. Peace be with you.

 

 

I have chosen not to respond to ANY of these notes... but the overwhelming majority shows how others feel at least in the Pack. The Troop was more my husband's forte as he was an ASM and I was simply a Committee Member, which is why I don't say much about the Troop we just left.

 

And, as far as the Voting in the Scout or Cub Master, that's what I was told by my District Scout Executive, as he passed the info to all District members at the Coordinated District Meeting, so if he's wrong, where shall I let him know he needs to read this? Thanks, I want to give an accurate representation about BSA policy!

 

[OneHour]

Joni, wow, you can write a resignation letter! Most resignation ends in a face-to-face and an "I quit!" or the person simply drops off the face of the neighborhood!

 

Good luck in the new troop.

 

1Hour

[Eamonn]

I have to admit to not being over keen on how le voyageur percives the District Advancement Committee.

They do not set the standards. These are set by the National Committee.

If I found out that anyone was holding the Unit Leaders feet to the fire, they would be gone in a heart beat.

They are there to serve, help and support the unit leaders and the Scouts that they too serve.

All members of the District Committee have to nominated, by the Nominating Committee, and then voted into office.

In my district we are doing everything possible not to use "Program People" to serve in district positions. At present our Advancement Chair, is a local doctor, who is an Eagle Scout. His office has done wonders keeping the Merit Badge List up to date, and our Eagle Board of Reveiw staff are an outstanding group of community minded citizens, many who have had little or no contact with Scouting, up till this point.

While they are prepared and ready to help any unit that may have a problem, we have found that in most cases these problems are better managed by the commissioner staff.

Many of the non- scout people are now getting the bug. Not to work with the boys / Youth, but are playing in golf outings, attending dinners and donating money to the council. They are also a super marketing tool for our District, bringing in more non-scouting types.

Of course once we have them, they then become Scout type people.

[Joni4TA]

Eamonn, Bob White, anyone! I am a real dork. I forgot to edit my copying and pasting above before posting and take out any people's names or Pack #'s, etc.... any way someone can do that for me? I don't care if my name is there, just don't think other people would appreciate it per say.

 

Thanks!

Joni

[dsteele]

You've asked me before, and I'll say it again, Amen Eamonn! (That fits along with the tune of a song I've long forgotten.

 

Joni -- I can't help you. Try the "gods of the forums" under the contact us link.

 

DS

[SR540Beaver]

joni,

 

Click on the icon with the pencil and paper at the heading of your post. It will ask for your ID and password and allow you to edit the posting.

[le Voyageur]

Eamonn

 

Let me clarify what I mean by holding unit leaders feet to the fire....

 

You do this by setting the example by following all of BSA's advancement guidelines, and expect no less from the Unit Leaders..you'll neither except nor expect sloppy, or incomplete records from the Units.

 

You do this by staying current, and sharing that information through the Council's training sessions and Roundtables....and if need be you make the rounds at Summer Camp during their Staff Training week to go over with that staff BSA's advancement standards...

 

You do this by personal visits to newly charted Units to assist that Unit's committee in setting up their advancement records and getting them on the right track...

 

And you do this by assisting in the training of the Commissioner's staff....

 

And, you do this by being on a Woodbadge staff. And if you're not a Woodbadger, you make it happen and work a ticket that will grow the job...

 

 

[Joni4TA]

Sorry, there is no pencil and paper icon on my post and it's been over an hour so unless there is a Forum Moderator here or an Administrator, my post isn't getting changed and that's annoying... by the way, here's the edit guidelines:

 

SCOUTER Forums Management

The Admin utility is for site moderators only. If you are attemptiong to edit a post that you have made, you can do so by clicking on the Edit Icon () that appears above your post for ONE HOUR AFTER THE ORIGINAL POST. Forum Moderators and Administrators are authorized to edit anyone's posts at any time.

 

It says a moderator can edit the messages at any time so I was asking Bob White or Eamonn, since they've been here a while. ANYONE KNOW A MONDERATOR???

Thanks!

 

[scoutldr]

Go back to the main Forum topics page (green bar at the top...click on "FORUMS"

 

Go to the "SCOUTER Announcements" topic

 

Go all the way to the bottom and click on "CONTACT US"