moosetracker 132 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Remember this boy is not listing himself as transgender. At 7 he probably has yet to define that yet.. He is just a boy that like to dress and act and do things that girls do.. Therefore Tomboy is the equivalent.. Link to post Share on other sites
kari_cardi 10 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I think, like gay scout leaders, there are probably already transgendered scouts in the BSA. A local troop had an intersex scout a few years ago. His genitalia was female (underdeveloped for a male) but he had testes. Should he be allowed in scouts? Or is a penis a requirement? The lines are not as clearly drawn as one might think. With the example I gave, the boys never knew the difference, and neither would I if his aunt had not said something to me. I'd consider it a non-issue for my boys to share a troop with a transgendered or intersex scout under most circumstances. I also think that there are a few basic rights we have as humans, and declaring our gender is at the top of the list. I cannot even begin to imagine how hard it would be to feel like a male but be forced by society to live as a female, or vice versa. THAT is putting the transgender shoe on the other foot. Walk a mile and all that. Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Sasha.....I am not talking about kids with physical issues like you describe. I am talking about the ones with issues between the ears. Mom screwed that boy up. Plain and simple. Link to post Share on other sites
resqman 108 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 This boy is simiply crossdressing, he is not transgendered. Notice only males are crossdressers. Women can where "male" clothing but are not considered crossdressers. If a biological female between 11-18 asked to join Boy Scouts, the answer would be No, regardless of what clothing and hair style you prefer. Gotta wait until 14 then you can join Venturing. Thems the rules. Link to post Share on other sites
Lisabob 13 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 My teenager sometimes likes to tell me this, too. "It's all your fault, mom!" Maybe you'd let your kids get away with that one? But I don't. And if it ain't gonna work for the kids, then it ain't gonna work for you, either. Mom's fault, gimme a break. Link to post Share on other sites
Trevorum 24 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 BSA has always been strongly heteronormative and I don't see that changing, even despite our greater understanding of intersex disorders. The condition is just too rare. For more information about persons with biological characteristics of both genders, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersexuality Link to post Share on other sites
moosetracker 132 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Did anyone see the rule Trevorum is looking at?? "We the BSA discriminate against heteronormative children, and any other abnormalities that are rare or too weird for our ultra-conservative views".. If they are intersex then I would feel you need to allow the child in.. They need to figure out which sex they identify with, I guess if they never choose they can stay abnormal. But, if they do figure it out, I know they can go for surgery.. At least the one I knew had parents who were holding off on surgery until the child themselves were old enough to choose.. How can they choose if they are discriminated against and can't do boy or girl things, but just co-ed things?? Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2785 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 >>How can they choose if they are discriminated against and can't do boy or girl things, but just co-ed things?? Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Lisa...... It is my belief if mom had stepped up when the boy was 3 or 4 and said.....How about you play with trucks instead of dolls or how about we watch power rangers instead of bratz......or how about you go out and play with the neighbor boys......This young mans life would be considerable less complicated than she is setting him up for. Link to post Share on other sites
Lisabob 13 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Maybe I'm wrong and Nike can no doubt clarify, but I thought we were talking about a situation where a child is biologically female without question, but dresses "like a boy" and likes to do "boy" things. That, to me, is a tomboy. Whole different world than an intersex child or a transgender child. By the way, I'm kind of a tomboy. I love sports, my favorite clothes are jeans & a sweatshirt, and most of my friends through life have been male. Going to the mall is my definition of torture and I don't own a curling iron. When I was a kid (1980s, not so long ago) the neighbor lady who is my parents' age was always chastising me for running around in shorts & T shirts in the summer because I might get tan (not ladylike), and for riding a bike or rollerskating because I might fall and scrape my knees, and "then what man will think you're pretty when you grow up?" So "tomboy" used to be a bad thing, at least in certain circles. Not unlike "sissy" is still widely considered a bad thing for boys who have overly "girly" interests. Today, I think far fewer people would agree with my neighbor's assessment of my tomboyish ways. Maybe 30 years from now, people's views about "sissy boys" will have changed, too. Social and cultural gender roles are fascinating. Link to post Share on other sites
Lisabob 13 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 basement, we all have the right to our beliefs. I disagree with yours, but ok. Two points. 1. What makes this "mom's" job/fault? I find it irritating when people insist on blaming the MOTHER for every perceived fault of the child. 2. More importantly, I don't really think either parent is going to have much influence on the innate identity of that child. Kind of like trying to force a left-handed kid to be right-handed. Yes, maybe you can make the kid conform to social norms to some degree, but they'll still probably be left-dominant. If a kid really prefers dolls to cars, good luck making them change. They'll find a way to play dolls anyway. Not to mention the psychological problems associated with trying to force someone to be what they aren't. We tend to recognize this about the left/right thing today - so I don't see why we should continue trying to force kids into changing other fundamental aspects of their identity, either. Link to post Share on other sites
momof2cubs 10 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Since a young age, my youngest son preferred drawing to playing ball, dolls to trains, and play kitchens to racetracks. Does that mean he is a girl trapped in a boy's body? How would he even know about being a girl?? Everyone called him by his male name, used male pronouns, and I dressed him in boy clothes. He is not a girl. He just preferred doing "girly" stuff. I didn't sign him up for girl scouts, he is in Cub Scouts. Because I am not an attention grabbing fool. The only way this boy identified himself as a girl is because he lives with his mom and his sister and no dad and his mom took his tendency towards "girly" things as a sign that he is female. What a load of horse puck. To say that his mother messed him up royally is to put it mildly. Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Lisa......dad or should I say the sperm donor is at fault too. momof2cubs made the point I was trying to make Link to post Share on other sites
WAKWIB 107 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Just an FYI, as we move forward in the on-going issue of "gay-rights vs. BSA discrimination" we will eventually encounter the entire LGBTQ spectrum of stuff. I doesn't simply end with the occasional homosexual male wanting to be a Scout/Scout Leader. So, if tomorrow National says "Gay is OK" that really will not be the end of the ride. Link to post Share on other sites
momof2cubs 10 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 WAKWIB: exactly. Where does it end? Link to post Share on other sites
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