Read this...

[SMT224 10]

Read this before any further posts...

 

http://thoughtcatalog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/A-Flowchart-to-Help-You-Determine-if-Yoursquore-Having-a-Rational-Discussion.jpg

 

 

[UCEagle72 10]

+1

[Scoutfish 16]

Well...I guess the I&P forums will be closing down!

[Kahuna 172]

I'd say we may as well close the whole forum.

[CalicoPenn 729]

So can you provide independent verification from other sources that the flowchart does indeed represent what a discussion is, or is it just the opinion of an online magazine, presented as indisputable fact?

 

 

 

[JoeBob 606]

Are you willing to change your mind on the 'introducing new arguments before resolving this argument'?

[pchadbo 60]

would that this were the way things operated in the real world, until then lets just stay scout-like and human.

[Engineer61 19]

I should try this with my Ex.

 

My discussion with her usually end up with her saying either...

 

"Period."

 

or

 

"So there."

 

or

 

"See you in Court."

 

 

 

[John-in-KC 311]

The assumption of your diagram is irrational.

 

People are not necessarily rational.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

The problem with a chart like this is that one's perception of one's position on the chart is not necessarily where other people perceive you to be. If the answer to a question on the chart is supposed to be yes, the person reading the chart always thinks they are at "yes" whereas an opponent in the debate is looking at it from another angle.

 

I think if everybody in these discussions (in this or any other "debate" forum) recognized that 95 percent of the time we are discussing opinions, not facts, the discussions would go a lot more smoothly. Unfortunately, these days (and not just in this forum) fewer and fewer people seem to recognize that opinions exist at all. There are facts (what I say) and lack of facts (what you say) and truth (what I say) and falsity (what you say) and that's it. If we disagree, at best it is because you don't have all the facts, and at worst it is because you are lying. Tough to have a real discussion that way. And that's basically what the chart says. But the chart isn't going to help.

[Scoutfish 16]

Having had time to let this thread roll around...well, bounce around my head for a couple days.....I have to agree with NJ.

 

Suppose you are 100 percent, without a doubt , to the very core of your existance convinced that the moon was in fact, made of green cheese.

 

If I am not willing to even consider the possibility that it's true...does that mean that I am not rational?

 

Well, it does in your perspective as explained by the chart.

 

Now, suppose I decide to write a thread saying that water was in fact, so dry, it pulled moisture out of your skin by extreme osmosis...therefore, when you felt the moisture on your skin, you thought water was wet.

 

If you do not consider the possibility I could be correct..does that mean you are not rational or able to hold a discussion?

 

Yeah, NJ has it correct when he says:

 

"... one's perception of one's position on the chart is not necessarily where other people perceive you to be."

 

So, either you agree or you are just wrong!

[packsaddle 753]

"Now, suppose I decide to write a thread saying that water was in fact, so dry, it pulled moisture out of your skin by extreme osmosis..."

 

Of course precisely the above happens all the time in nature, in both directions, as I suspect you already know. The perception of 'wet' is another matter.

 

Thing is, this is an idea that CAN be investigated by different people using the same methods of analysis and observation and if done correctly, they WILL get the same answer and agree. In this case it is not merely a matter of perception. An ignorant or careless person may think something else but it will not be correct, nor will it be reality even for themselves. They will merely be wrong.