V-P debate

[skeptic 995]

Not sure I want my VP, or possibly P, winking at other world statespeople while in discussions of international import. She did better than I would have thought, but as noted, really did not improve my opinion much. Biden obviously was able to draw on better personal experience in answering. Again, as noted, it would be great to actually see and hear a true debate where the participants actually spoke to each other and actually addressed the subject head on.

 

 

 

[Gold Winger 9]

"The one policy issue I had with Palin and I wish the moderator had followed up, was when she said she didn't believe mankind was responsible for global warming."

 

I missed that question in the debate but I did see her answer it in an interview. She didn't say that she didn't believe that mankind was responsible, she said that we contributed to it but couldn't be sure if part of it wasn't just the cyclic nature of weather.

[vol_scouter 365]

Governor Palin did as ALL politicians and altered some questions to answer what she wished to answer. When she said that she was not going to answer a particular question, it was because the moderator had asked her a different question than had been asked to Biden. The rules of the debate were violated by Ifill who stnad to profit by a Obama win and who on mic congratulated Biden on a good job. Governor Palin merely wished to answer the question Biden had answered and not a different one. Did you notice Biden reading from his notes prior to answering a question but seldom in the followup questions? Why would he reference his notes then and not on followups?

[NJCubScouter 1389]

vol_scouter says:

 

Governor Palin did as ALL politicians and altered some questions to answer what she wished to answer.

 

As I said before, she did it far more than any candidate I have ever seen, and I have watched every presidential and v.p. debate since they started in 1976.

 

When she said that she was not going to answer a particular question, it was because the moderator had asked her a different question than had been asked to Biden.

 

Here is a link to the transcript of the debate, please cut and paste exactly what you are talking about:

 

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/president/debates/transcripts/vice-presidential-debate.html

 

The rules of the debate were violated by Ifill who stnad to profit by a Obama win and who on mic congratulated Biden on a good job.

 

This nonsense about the moderator's book, raised on right-wing web sites a day or two before the debate, is ridiculous. I don't see how anybody could say that the moderator wasn't totally objective. She was tough on both candidates, though not too tough on either, and not nearly as tough as Jim Lehrer was in the first Obama-McCain debate. Palin is lucky he wasn't the moderator this time.

 

Governor Palin merely wished to answer the question Biden had answered and not a different one.

 

Again, please prove this, if it's true.

 

Did you notice Biden reading from his notes prior to answering a question but seldom in the followup questions? Why would he reference his notes then and not on followups?

 

I didn't notice. What are you implying?

 

 

 

 

[BrentAllen 10]

Sarah exceeded expectations; Joe met expectations. Advantage Palin.

 

Sarah Palin is a winner. She has proven that throughout her life, whether it be basketball, cross-country, beauty contests or politics. When she ran for governor, she had to beat an incumbent Republican who had the backing of the party, and then went on to beat a Democrat who previously held the office. Now, after being tapped for VP just 5 weeks ago, she goes toe to toe with an experienced Senator in front of 70 million viewers. Yes, gwd, she is one of us, an exceptional one of us. Most of us wouldn't have been able to remember our own name on that stage. She has worked hard to get up the learning curve in 5 weeks, which is impressive to me, and she came out swinging. I don't think you can teach that kind of courage, that kind of winner mentality - you either have it, or you don't. We'll see if McCain can take it from here.

 

I only wish Sarah would have stated that man-made global warming is the biggest hoax ever perpetuated on mankind in our lifetime.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

"Advantage" based on what, Brent? The "expectations" game is just spin. The question is, how did the debate affect, if at all, how people are going to actually vote? The "snap" polls and less scientific measures suggest that more undecideds were swayed in the direction of Obama than in the direction of McCain by the v.p. debate. However, the effect is really like a raindrop in a tidal wave moving in the same direction, which is due to the economic situation. The polls (both popular and electoral votes) were moving in Obama's direction anyway, and when the "real" polls come out over the next few days, we will see whether things are still moving that way. As I say, if they do it is not because of Joe Biden and Sarah Palin, but more because of unemployment, gas prices, credit crunches, foreclosures, bank takeovers, etc., and more importantly, fear of more of the same.

 

The best comment I heard on tv last night after the debate was that the failure of either candidate to decisively "win" or "lose" the v.p. debate means that the focus will now come off Palin and onto the presidential candidates and the issues, where it belongs. I agree completely. It is difficult for me to imagine anyone deciding how to vote in this election based primarily on whether they prefer Biden or Palin. That's not where, as we used to say in the 60's, the action is. (Ok, I was a little too young to say that, but other people said it.)

[BrentAllen 10]

I guess it depends on which polls you read or follow. The Luntz polling of undecided voters had independents giving the nod to Palin, with many more voters in that group saying they had made up their mind to vote McCain after the debate. My prediction is McCain is going to get a boost from this debate. Palin did much more to help McCain that Biden did to help Obama, would you not agree? If you do, then the advantage went to Palin. At the end of the day, no one will really remember who won, and I don't think it will matter. Lloyde Bentsen pretty well creamed Quayle, but his side lost the election. Palin had become a negative; she is now a positive on the McCain ticket.

[Lisabob 13]

When McCain picked Palin I noted that she would be mocked, manipulated, and generally considered a lightweight by most of Washington. And hey, guess what, even her own campaign staff apparently doesn't bother to include her in decision making. She apparently "read about" the McCain/Palin ticket's decision to pull out of Michigan, conceding defeat in a major industrial midwest state a full month before the election, in the newspaper! (that's incredible strategy in its own right and generally doesn't happen in close elections - bodes ill for McCain)

 

SO much for being a valuable asset in terms of making policy decisions. She isn't even consulted by her own campaign staff. Nor, apparently, does she have the good sense to keep that tidbit to herself, as she then went on record opposing McCain's decision to stop targeting MI.

 

And what's this nonsense about being annoyed by Couric's "gotcha" question when Couric asked her what newspapers she reads? C'mon now! "Gotcha" is when someone asks you to name the top 4 leaders in the line of succession for the Azerbaijani president. It isn't when someone asks you a perfectly reasonable and everyday-life sort of question. One could assume that, as a mayor, a governor, a business owner, and an "oil and gas regulator" that Ms Palin does follow the news, right?

[Lisabob 13]

Brent, as I'm sure you know, Luntz is a rather controversial figure as a pollster because he is strongly partisan and there have been allegations in the past that perhaps his polling methodology is not as unbiased as it might be. (I believe he was reprimanded by his professional organization of polling firms in the 1990s for this but I'd have to dig up all the details and don't feel like doing the research.) He has worked closely with such conservative Republicans as Newt Gingrich and the Contract for America gang.

 

That's not to say he doesn't know polling. He clearly does. And for a really interesting look into this guy's influence, people should check out his book "Words that Work." But he's not an independent pollster, he's a Republican pollster.

[BrentAllen 10]

Lisa,

Based on all the "independent voter" surveys and polls I've seen, I'd say Luntz is just as objective as the rest of them. Meaning, they all have some bias. I would say his independent groups are much more independent than groups hosted by CNN or MSNBC.

 

As for general polling, I recently read an article that stated the polling numbers from CNN after the McCain-Obama debate were "slightly" biased in numbers of Democrats in the group. This "slight" bias was 41% Democrat, 27% Republican, 30% undecided in the group polled. The result of the poll? "Round 1 in debates goes to Obama, poll says" Interesting. Obama over McCain, 51 - 38. That difference is a little less than the difference in the group.

41 - 27 = 14

51 - 38 = 13

But of course, CNN is neutral, right??

 

What really cracks me up is the line in the arcticle says that due to bias, the debate was a tie. I wonder why the title says otherwise??

 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/27/debate.poll/index.html

[Trevorum 24]

"... man-made global warming is the biggest hoax ever perpetuated on mankind in our lifetime."

 

What about that crazy claim that the Earth is older than 4004 BC?

 

Or - ooh, this is a good one! - that nutty notion that the CONTINENTS are actually FLOATING around on the earth!

 

hah-hah!

 

 

 

Those wacky scientists and their hidden agendas! Always trying some con on the unsuspecting public!

 

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Trevorum)

[Gold Winger 9]

Floating around on the earth? Everyone knows that the continents are being carried on the back of trolls and earthquakes occurs when one of the trolls fart.

[Novice_Cubmaster 10]

So, GW - perhaps Troll Flatulence is the cause of global warming?

If only we could collect Troll Gas & use it in place of fossil fuels - I don't remember Biden or Palin discussing this alternative energy source.

 

NC

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Yeah yeah, Brent, I know, everybody's biased against your guy. I noticed that Sarah Palin even worked the talking point about the "mainstream media" into the debate.(This message has been edited by njcubscouter)

[Apache Bob 10]

Gold Winger - I have not heard about the Trolls since I was a teenager in the 50's. Thanks for the memories!