The latest Ask Andy

[Nike 94]

Aren't the religious views and practices of minor children under the parents' purview? Such that if a Scout says he's an atheist and his parents tell you, "Sheesh, we've gone round and round on this. Just ignore him. He's a believer, and we take him to services all the time." And we've still got Bobby proclaiming his atheism. Whose word do I take? Does it change if he's 8 or 12 or 16?

 

Yeah, BSA set this up reeeaaalll good.

[packsaddle 753]

Beavah, I can't speak for Merlyn but I obviously do understand the shades of gray thing (Technicolor is just too retro). Otherwise I'd be out of here like you-know-what through a goose. What I DO see in black and white terms is the contradiction that you just described nicely. Where you see a pragmatic balance between ideals, legalities, and practice, I also see that they are not the same thing and are, in fact, in conflict. I'm OK with the local option approach as it is quietly applied so many localities. It just isn't the letter of the regulation and if BSA turns a blind eye, I have to say I appreciate their hypocrisy.

 

Nike, the membership application is a legal document. Boy Scouts are minors. Since he's not an adult you take the word of the legal guardian or parent. Edited to add: Or you can do nothing. He's already a member. Your job as SM is NOT to ferret out membership disqualifications. Let the boy and parents sort things out for themselves.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[SSScout 1616]

Well, Nike is spot on about BSA's situation.

evmori doesn't see things as I do here, and maybe I can't convince him otherwise, however...

If my son's school has a class in "World's Religions", and requires the students to study and be knowledgeable about various faiths (no one in particular), that is not a religious organization.

If my son participates in his First Day School class and learns about his birth-right faith, which he may/maynot accept or reject ultimately, that's a religion.

If he joins a group that asks him to "do my duty to God" but does not define what that duty is (leaving it to the boy to decide that), that is , to my mind, a "religious" organization.

If he joined a group that asked him to "scrub the floor really well", but does not define how the floor should be scrubbed (leaving the methodology to the boy), then that organization is a volunteer cleaning club, not a cleaning company, which must meet gov't standards.

 

Howbout them Mudhens?

 

[Nike 94]

I'm going to always defer to the parents when it comes to home issues unless what's going on is abusive or illegal. I believe that most teens raised in a church or not go through a doubting/disbelieving phase based on logical questioning, teen alienation, or plain rebelliousness. And, I see no reason to kick a kid out of Scouts for questioning some rather big issues in his life. Some kids even go so far as to profess atheism to get attention or as an easy out of Scouts.

 

I for one refuse to be the religious police until ordered to do so, and that's when I will have to dutifully resign.

[evmori 11]

SSScout,

 

How is participating in "First Day School class and learns about his birth-right faith" a religion? Sounds like a school class like World Religions to me & a school class ain't a religion.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[SSScout 1616]

Ev: Traditionally, Quakers eschewed using the "usual" names for the days of the week (and the usual names of the months, too) because they were named to honor pagan gods (and pagan Roman emporers). Instead, they quite logically numbered the days (First day, Second day, etc.) and numbered the months. So, Not getting too much into the eclesiastical problems the church created in the calendar(we no longer "rest" on the seventh day, but on the first?), suffice to say that the Religious Society of Friends ( a religion), in more formal situations, refers to days by number rather than by name. ALTHOUGH most Friends just accept the names as names, in usual conversation. Therefore, (check your calendar), today is 7th day, 13 ninth month. And tommorrow, 14 ninth month, we will go to Meeting and son will attend his First Day School. To learn about his birth-right faith. So he can accept or reject it. When he figures it out.

 

"Sun" day = First day.

 

So why is "september" (latin for 'seven' month?) the ninth month? Another time...

 

Howbout them Celtics?

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Well, Why is November the 11th month when it should be the ninth and December the 12th month when it should be the 10th?

 

Because things got a little wacky, the months come from a number of sources, January from Janus, looking both back and forward, remembering the past year and looking forward to the new. So, we have gods, numbers and emporerors.

 

Why does flammable and inflammable mean the same thing? Because active and inactive sure don't...

[Rooster7 11]

Why is the Scouter allowing the movie, "The God Who Wasn't There", to be advertised on their website? Was this by some trickery by an underhanded sponsor or was it an bonehead oversight by an otherwise well run site? The point is - I cannot believe this movie, which makes a case for atheism, was knowingly allowed to be advertised on this site.

[shortridge 184]

Are you talking about the Google ads at the top of the screen? I don't believe siteowners have much control over what pops up there.

[evmori 11]

So First Day School class is a Sunday school class????? Ya lost me & never answered my question SSScout.

[SSScout 1616]

Eeyep. This is not a "who's on first" situation...

 

The first day of the week is (in ordinary company, on the usual calender) called "sunday" (named after that bright circle in the sky that provides all that we need). Visit your neighborhood Baptist church and your kids will attend the "Sunday School". If you attend your local Friends' Meeting, ("worship after the manner of Friends"), they will escort your child to the appropriate "Firstday Class". There, they will find out why the Religious Society of Friends will also answer to Quaker. Thus, not honoring the pagan god, "sun".

.

 

Somewhere along the way, the Church decided to honor the Lord by celebrating worship on the first day of the week instead of the seventh, upon which the Lord "rested". Go figure. You might also check with your Seventh Day Adventist neighbor. They worship on Seventhday (saturday), because they believe the church was wrong in it's declaration umpteen years ago.

 

 

Howbout them Astros?

(This message has been edited by SSScout)

[evmori 11]

OK so First Day School class is a Sunday school class! Then sure it is a religion! Still not the same.

[SSScout 1616]

Glad I could help. You are always welcome to join us in silent worship.

 

"Still not the same"

 

Which is not the same as what?

 

Howbout them Terrapins?

 

 

[evmori 11]

Not the same as your post on Saturday, 9/13/2008: 4:42:19 PM. You comparison in not valid!

 

Here we go Steelers!

[evmori 11]

(Dreaded Double Post)

(This message has been edited by evmori)