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Laser Tag or not?


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As with the Boy Scout Handbook Ed, you read my posts but you don't understand them. Read it again if you need to. I am all for fun for fun's sake but as a scout leader my role is to make scouting is a game with a purpose and that purpose is to achieve the mission of scouting. For the short time I get to influence the scout I believe in fun for the scout's sake.

 

But again you and I see the program in a completely different way.

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I hope I can ask a question without being judged to be for this or against that.

 

I have never played laser tag, or paint ball, but it seems to me the risk of injury is relitively low, especially if goggles are required. If I am right, why is this deemed more unsafe than say kayaling, or climbing and repelling?

 

Also, as much as I agree 1000% with Bob White about things being done in Scouting having a purpose, it seems to me very few things that a youth leader could dream up would not have at least an indirect Scouting purpose. Would not laser tag or even paint ball contribute to physical growth? Ed mentioned that his Troop goes bowling. He says they do it for fun. And that's great. But there is also value in participating in the individual sport that bowling is. Competition, learning to be a good sport if you lose and gracious if you win. These are things that definitely advance the purpose of Scouting. My point is that even if Ed thinks that they go bowling because it's fun, there's more to it than that.

 

To answer the initial question, as much as I would try to steer our boys toward more traditional activities, I don't think I'd have a leg to stand on to prohibit it. It seems like it isn't prohibited by G2SS, and I think the relationship to the Aims of Scouting are there.

 

Mark

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Mark, I think you are right about the second two points, but not all games reach a scouting purpose and not all are approprite. As far as the safety of paint ball, goggles would not be enough protection. Those projectiles can raise quite a welt depending on the distance you are shot from and where you are hit. Another point, if you look at the GTSS under the fire arms rules, scouts can only shoot at bulls-eyes. You are not allowed to shoot at human silhouettes. I would guess that if scouting doesn't want us to shoot at human likenesses then we shouldn't shoot at humans either.

 

Bob

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The same patrol scouting skills taught in "capture the flag" could be used in laser tag. Just an updated version of an age old game. We had a scout last fall bust his head open playing capture the flag in the dark. Laser tag is usually played in a closed facility and would be far safer than running around thru trees, on rough terrain in the dark. The same lessons could be learned much more safely thru laser tag than thru capture the flag.

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I live by the saying that Scouting is the Game with a Purpose. And I am one of those anal adults who seems to look for values in everything we do and my scouts know it to the point that I heard here he goes again a lot. In fact, I also encouraged scouts to challenge anything and everything in our program as a values building experience. If I couldn't justify it toward building character or citizenship, they could throw it out. Nothing was thrown out and the challenge forced me to learn how to apply everything we did in our Troop toward building habits that lead to better character. Now I know some here like to pick apart broad terms, so when I talk about character, I mean those habits that raise the level of values expected by men of integrity and moral decision making.

 

Saying that, I know of packs that forbid any kind of group computation including pinewood derbies. I know packs that look to compete with other packs in soccer and baseball. Some troops discourage any kind of game that implies militant style activity, others have a dozen different versions of Capture the Flag and British Bulldog.

 

We adults tend to direct or children by emotions formed by life experiences. Some of us guide out of fear, others out of pride or self-indulgence. Its hard to change those habits, but the scouting program works best when we take the emotion out and ask, how does this activity encourage habits of character in the boys? Sometimes its not so much that the activity has to have value as much as a reward for the actions behind the activities. Our PLC likes to have an all night lock in of video and computer games. Its a reward that with great benefits down the road.

 

Learn the Guide to Safe Scouting and give it to your PLC. Most of the time, the scouts can and will limit their activities within the appropriate guidelines. The other limitations will more than likely come from the adults. Thats OK if the scouts understand the fears or values behind the adult restrictions. Its even better when the scouts agree. But while some rules are very clear, some restrictions can fall in that grey area, and thats when the wisdom of the master scouter needs to come in play. Thats when we have to measure the value of the game. Read the handbooks, get to know the BSA published material and practice applying values to your unit actions and activities. I think you will find that in many ways, you wont take away activities so much as you will make sure they are run with a purpose. And personally, I think that plain old fun has some positive value too.

 

I know this seems like a wishy washy answer, but my real point is many times there isnt a right or wrong answer. Its going to be up to you to decide what values your scouts get from your limitations. Thats when understanding the Purpose of the Game is the most important. Thats what separates the adult leaders from the boys.

 

Sorry this was long. I have been very busy and its hard to participate in the whole discussion. Have a great scouting day.

 

Barry

 

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Barry,

 

As usual, a very good post. I can see, understand and agree with Bob's (and the BSA's) value based requirement for activites. However, there is nothing wrong with having fun for fun's sake either. I think for younger new scouts, all the rules, regulations and learning could be intimidating in the beginning after coming from Cubs where things are more "fun" based. Yes, the activites in Cubs can and is value based, but a little more free and fun based too. When you come from having fun to serious work, the transition can be difficult. While Boy Scouts are busy planning an outing, packing, setting up camp, cooking, breaking camp, etc., surely the SM doesn't expect the boys to sit around the camp fire each night discussing their best knot tying techniques instead of relaxing, being boys and shooting the bull? Bob is right that a well run program will be fun, but it is OK to occasionally have fun....just because.

 

I'm reminded of when my son was playing baseball on a highly competitive team. Their motto was, "How do we practice?, Like we play!" Their coach was a dead serious coach and he worked them hard. But occasionally we had a cookout, a mom/son baseball game, a swim party or let a practice denigrate into a homerun derby. We did it because they worked hard and deserved it. We did it for fun. It helped to keep them engaged in the long term.

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kwc57 and Eagle dad don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that scouts cant play. Certainly sitting around aroun the campfire comparing knot tying techniques is not an activity I would endorse as being a fun filled frolic.

 

But if you have the opportunity to visit a variety of troops you will see that scouts are often sent off to play as a method of giving the adults a breakor out of frustration because they wouldn't do other activities. That is no being a responsible scout leader that is an abdication of responsibility.

 

I think useing patrol laser tag might be a good way to practice silent scout signal IF the scouts actually learned silent scout signals prior to the activity.

 

Capture the flag can be a great activity filled with fun and skill practice or a free for all. the difference is in the adult leadership.

 

Sitting around the campfire singing songs and doing skits not only increases social skills, communication skills but can teach ettiquette and social appropiateness at the same time. A good leader would make sure that as the scouts had fun theyr realized that it is possible to have fun and use poor taste or bad judgement. These lessons do not have to be taught with a sledge hammer but can be taught lightly with a few well chosen moments. But the leader has to be looking for the opportunity.

 

As I say we have their hearts and minds for a small fraction of their life we need to make the most of the little time with them that we have.

 

I f you want to be a game leader you do not need the scouting program. We are a game with a purpose not just a game.

 

OGE,.....and you thought this was a simple question.

 

BW

 

 

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A Scout is cheerful, a scout if friendly, a scout is courteous - all characteristics / values that can be taught by "games."

 

Now, why ban group computation Eagledad? I know that many have a math phobia but that is going to an extreme! Doesn't that fall under "mentally awake?" {Type with tongue firmly planted in cheek.}

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While it is great to have fun with a purpose, but fun for the sake of having fun sometimes retains scouts! Having to compete against sports and likes of sports, camping and the idealology of scouting is not enough nowaday to keep the boys interested. It was cool close to 30 years ago to go camping and do all of the boyscout stuffs! Nowaday, Nintendo, Playstation, Xbox, ybox, zbox ... etc are readily available, in addition to sports, to draw the boys away from scouting. Only a handful of boys wants to camp ... and only a handful of them wants to be an Eagle Scout. When the two fumes kick-in at high school level, then they are the other distracting factors. Laser Tag and other outings (rock gym climbing ... etc) are "added attraction" to keep the boys interested. If we try to make it too politically correct and totally safe, then the only thing that really available left for the boys to do is "basket weaving!" Even that may involve injuries such as getting poked in the eyes with the straw! ;)

 

Also ... as Ed pointed it out ... these are some of the additional activities that the troop (the boys) want to do! We as leaders need to make sure that they are safe and purposeful (and to me ... having fun is one of the purposes in scouting)!

(This message has been edited by OneHour)

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