Scouts' forest chapel torn down after 70 years because it might offend non-Christians

[fgoodwin 23]

Scouts' forest chapel torn down after 70 years because it might offend non-Christians

 

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23399014-details/Scouts'+forest+chapel+torn+down+after+70+years+because+it+might+offend+non-Christians/article.do

http://tinyurl.com/37uvsf

 

02.06.07

 

For almost 70 years, Scouts and Guides have savoured their place of peaceful worship under the trees.

 

But no longer. The woodland chapel has been demolished - its wooden pews and rudimentary cross and altar removed. In its place is a campfire circle.

 

The change has been imposed by the Scout Association, which believes the chapel excludes non-Christian Scouts.

 

Locals are dismayed, but the association says it is simply "moving forward".

 

The basic open-air structure in woodland surrounding Belchamps Scout Centre in Hockley, Essex, was built between the wars by volunteers.

 

They used old telegraph poles for pews and built a basic altar and cross. Visiting groups of Brownies, Guides, Cubs and Scouts, have used it for generations.

 

Weddings have been blessed there, ashes scattered and memorial trees planted.

 

But in April, as the Scouting movement celebrated its centenary, it was torn down.

 

Former Scout leaders are outraged. Keith Rooks-Cowell, 66, led Sunday services in the outdoor chapel for more than 30 years.

 

The retired civil servant said: "Part of the Scout promise is to do our duty to God. It's an important tradition.

 

"Scouting has got no objection to any religion or faith - you should have faith, but it's not important which one.

 

"Anyone from any faith or any religion could go and use the chapel, it's never been a problem. The chapel was already inclusive.

 

"It has been wrecked. All the posts and everything had been demolished and laid flat. I was amazed and felt disgusted that this had been done."

 

Wendy Wilson, a bank worker and Scout leader from South-end, held religious services in the chapel for seven years. Her son Joshua, now nine, was baptised there.

 

She said: "It's a really special place. We all make a promise to do our duty to God, whatever God that may be.

 

"The chapel has never been an issue. If people didn't want to attend services, it didn't matter and they could choose to have their own ceremonies there. Nobody was made to feel excluded."

 

However, centre manager Nigel Ruse, 42, said: "The updating of the chapel was done to turn it into a place of worship for all faiths and not to exclude any one from Scouting.

 

"This is a case of taking Scouting-forward."

 

He said religious ceremonies could be held at the campfire circle.

 

But Mr Rooks-Cowell said: "A campfire is a place for sitting round singing, telling jokes and stories. The chapel was used as a quiet place for any leaders to go and sit and think. The two don't sit comfortably together.

 

"The campfire is not the right place for worship. All religions involves meditation and relaxation."

 

Last year, it was revealed that the Scout Association banned helpers from putting suncream on children unless they already had sunburn. This was to done to prevent allegations of child abuse.

[evmori 11]

PC run amok again!

[Trevorum 24]

We have a very nice outdoor chapel at our camp. Tall pines, peaceful view of the lake, rustic benches. It's a quiet place to meditate and commune. However, it also has a large cross right in front of the bences that is impossible to ignore. Christians love the chapel. But Jews, Hindus, and us other minorities tend not to go there because of the in-your-face reminder of our second class status. It would be nice if the chapel was more welcoming to all Scouts. Unfortunately, the Christians-in-charge don't see the disconnect between the inclusive Scouts Own services and the exclusive venue.

[fgoodwin 23]

Nick, you make a good point.

 

Is the solution to remove the cross, or to tear down the entire chapel and reduce it to a fire ring?

 

That's essentially the decision made by the Scout Association regarding this forest chapel.

 

So once again, in order not to offend the minority, the majority is told not to be offended by this outrageous "solution".

[Hunt 11]

It seems to me that an obvious solution would have been to replace the permanent cross with something that could be used for the symbol of whatever faith was using the chapel at a particular time, or just a scout symbol for ecumenical services or meetings. This is similar to what was done in the William & Mary chapel (although it sparked a big controversy nevertheless).

[Kudu 186]

I wonder if the Evening Standard is a Rupert Murdoch property, like Fox News :-/

 

I doubt the accuracy of the report because the pews would not be removed to convert the "chapel" into a campfire circle.

 

Judging from the "before" photograph, my guess is that if we viewed an "after" picture, we would find that the only difference is that the simple cross and the tiny altar have been replaced with a campfire ring.

 

Most camps have portable altars for "Scouts' Own" services, and a cross can always be brought to a Christian service in an impressive procession.

 

Perhaps this is all about Keith Rooks-Cowell wanting to impose a permanent cross on everyone else who uses the chapel.

 

He says, "A campfire is a place for sitting round singing, telling jokes and stories... The campfire is not the right place for worship. All religions involves meditation and relaxation."

 

That is bogus!

 

"Make a joyful noise unto the Lord, all ye lands. Serve the Lord with gladness; come before his presence with singing" (psalm 100).

 

I want to thank fgoodwin for his contributions. In recent years he has consistently posted his Scout news articles without comment to the Issues & Politics forum where (unlike Scouts-L) Scouters have the freedom to take the discussion in any direction they choose. He never attempts to shape this dialogue, and he never accuses anyone of "hijacking" his threads.

 

Thanks Fred!

 

Kudu

[packsaddle 753]

The answer to the Murdoch question is 'No'. The Evening Standard is actually a competitor, not that that makes it any more reliable.

I agree on the photo analysis. It was a very simple thing in the 'before' image. I'd feel badly if those poles weren't reused elsewhere.

Trevorum's note is something I've also observed. The Christian majority in this region also exerts its primacy at devotionals of many sorts. Our scouts who are Jewish or Hindu or Muslim, etc., simply sit silently. They claim not to feel excluded but they are obviously not 'included'.

[ASM915 90]

It is truely a shame that they didn't just add symbols of the other main religions to the Chapel, The Star of David, The Crescent and others. It would have been the simplest fix and showed their diversity and respect of all religions, unless Nigel Ruse's purpose was to desicrate all sacred ground and religions by tearing down the Chapel.

[Trevorum 24]

ASM915,

That's thinking in the right direction certainly, but what about the non-"main" religions? Would someone think to include the flaming chalice, or the yin-yang, or the faravahar, or the khanda, or the pentagram? Better not to include any permanent symbols at all and let each service provide it's own, if desired.

[epalmer84 10]

When I was a youth, the chapel at Camp Shenandoah here had round plaques with the emblems of several faiths- Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Baha'i, and a number of others. Returning as an adult, I found that those plaques had been removed. The chapel is still there, nestled amongst the pines, simple yet elegant. It is often used for training in the Citizenship merit badges. I often see Scouts sitting there, either doing paperwork where it is quiet or simply meditating or praying.

 

Ed

[BrentAllen 10]

Woodland chapel row

By Jo Bowring

May 26, 2007

 

http://www.echo-news.co.uk/mostpopular.var.1427260.mostviewed.woodland_chapel_row.php

 

CELEBRATIONS to mark the centenery of the Scouting movement were marred by the demolition of a cherished woodland chapel.

 

Hundreds of Scouts from the Southend Estuary district arrived at the Belchamps centre in Hockley last weekend to mark the 100 year anniversary of the movement.

 

But to some of the Scout leaders' dismay, they discovered for the first time that an open air chapel had been demolished.

 

The chapel has been moved to the new improved campfire circle, so religious ceremonies of all faiths can be held there.

 

But many are feeling the loss of somewhere people could go for quiet reflection- and where the ashes of people's loved ones have been scattered.

 

Scout leader Keith Crowhurst said: "There are so many people writing to the centre to object, including people who were involved with the site over many years.

 

"It was a perimeter fence and ornamental gateway made out of rough timber, with rough timber seats and a timber alter."

 

The dismantling of the chapel has also upset people who had scattered the ashes of loved ones there, in particular the widow of one Scout leader whose ashes were buried under the altar.

 

Mr Crowhurst said: "It would appear that because there was so little consultation, they didn't know the ashes were there.

 

"But if they had consulted, they would have been told."

 

Centre manager Nigel Ruse said the idea to move the chapel came from trustees of the site.

 

The decision to dismantle the chapel was made in October.

 

Mr Ruse said: "The updating of the chapel was done to turn it into a place of worship for all faiths, and not to exclude any one from Scouting.

 

"I feel Mr Crowhurst has been unfortunate in that he hasn't been to the site for a while and hasn't noticed the news about the new chapel."

 

"While this may have put a damper on his weekend I can assure you that it did not dampen the spirits of any of the young people who attended."

 

He added: "We deliberately didn't start work for six months to allow for any issues to be raised. Neither I nor the trustees where aware that anyone's ashes had been placed in the chapel.

 

"We are in discussion with the lady concerned and this will be a private discussion to achieve a suitable and compassionate outcome."

 

Sounds like they did more than just take down the cross. This place was pretty special, if weddings and baptisms were performed there, and even ashes of a former Scouter buried under the altar.

 

 

[Kudu 186]

BrentAllen writes:

 

"Sounds like they did more than just take down the cross. This place was pretty special, if weddings and baptisms were performed there, and even ashes of a former Scouter buried under the altar."

 

I'm with Brent on this one. If this second account is accurate, they why did they destroy the forest chapel just because they constructed a new one?

 

I hate when that kind of thing happens. Our Council partially bulldozed an historic old campfire ring set into the side of a hill deep in the woods after they built a handicapped-accessible new one next to the main parking lot. Likewise they bulldozed two old lean-to's built of logs with 70 years of Scouts' initials craved into them, because the floors did not meet current state codes.

 

Nobody cares about Scout history.

 

Kudu

 

[fgoodwin 23]

Rick:

 

Thanx for the kind words.

 

As I mentioned to another Scouter, discussion threads often take on a life of their own, and the originator can no more control its direction than he can tell the wind which way to blow.

 

With respect to this particular incident, I am saddened by it, and hope the Scout Association learns from the reaction they are getting. They should carefully consider the implications the next time they decide to tear down something which means so much to so many people.

 

YiS,

 

Fred

[fgoodwin 23]

Here's the same article I posted, this time on the Daily Mail website:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=459310

http://tinyurl.com/339s34

 

I don't know if Rupert Murdoch owns this one either, but judging by the reader reaction, most commenters aren't happy with what happened.

 

Fred

[SR540Beaver 116]

The simple solution would have been to either remove the cross or add other symbols. I was a Troop Guide for a Wood Badge course this last fall. The council property we use for WB has a chapel with a combination cross/star of david symbol. One of the participants in my patrol was black and very sensitive to diversity issues. He was impressed by this symbol and created one of his WB ticket items to write a proposal to the council to design, build and place an even more inclusive symbol at each council property that has a chapel.