Global politics and scouting

[packsaddle 753]

And a good sense of humor it is too. By the way, in response so something you said, specifically, "Do you know that sophisticated RPGs can be bought for under $10?"

You must remember that RPGs (and tanks and land mines, etc.) don't kill people...people kill people.

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

If it is a matter of being held hostage to our oil appetite and fighting terrorism for the next 100 years, then I suggest we give in and learn to walk, rebuild our cities, buy smaller cars and ride bikes. We could use some of that brain power that everyone speaks about when promoting their sons to the highest levels of academia to finding alternative sources of power and then they can brag about their sons Nobel Peace Prize. We need a country where people are fit and not a place where being overweight is considered normal. We dont need an economy of modern day commuter tanks just to impress the few friends that everyone seems to not be able to have since they are working overtime everyday to pay for things they cant afford. Chasing money has stuck our heads so far into the sands of the middle-east that we couldnt dig ourselves out if we wanted to ever

but I believe that we can. FB

[BrentAllen 10]

Fuzzy,

What do you think is going to happen to the person who invents the economically viable fuel cell, or some other alternative energy form? Think they will give Bill Gates a run for his money on the "Most Wealthy" list? I do. That being said, don't you think there is plenty of motivation for our best and brightest to be working on this problem?

It cracks me up when people suggest there isn't anyone seriously working to solve this problem. I guess they think the beer companies are in cahoots with the oil companies to keep the best and brightest college students drunk and hung over!

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

BA,

 

I am not suggesting people are not working on alternative sources of power. What I am saying is that the rest of us appear to covet a way of life that is not sustainable, given that oil drives the economy. The price of gas is $3.00 a gallon and rising while consumption is up from last year's lower prices. People are still driving vehicles that get less than 10 miles per gallon. Urban planners do not include the least of ideas for energy conservation while houses are being built larger with fewer ways to save energy than ever. I am saying that if someone invented a car that converted oxygen into energy that people would refuse to buy it because it is to small, too ugly and doesn't represent their idea of wealth.

 

However long that the people of this country worship unleaded gas, that is how long it will take to solve the Mid-East conflict.

 

FB

[BrentAllen 10]

Fuzzy,

I think you have oversimplified the situation in the mid-east. If we never needed another drop of oil, the Israel-Muslim/Arab problem would still exist. I'm starting to agree with Rush Limbaugh - I don't think that problem will be solved until full war breaks out and someone wins and someone surrenders unconditionally. Given the UN's meddling, that might not even produce a final resolution.

[packsaddle 753]

Fuzzy and Brent, I see some validity in both your arguments. There is no doubt that the Arab-Israeli conflict would exist in the absence of oil. However, there is also undeniable linkage of that conflict to the presence of the world's largest oil reserves. I agree with Fuzzy that our energy appetite (i.e. our dollars) provide 'fuel' for that conflict. At the same time, our free market economy seems headed for even greater shifts of our wealth to more expensive oil...at least until it is so expensive that we can't afford it.

 

Last spring I taught a course (consequences of power production) that employed (among other sources) a very old book by Howard Odum, "Environment, Power, and Society". While the book is dated by more than 30 years now, it was eery to read those yellowed pages and see how visionary that man was so long ago. If only he had better communication skills for his exceedingly complex ideas....oh well. I guess we'll just have to see where the unseen hand and its magic takes us.

 

I own one of the gas guzzlers. I will continue to own it when gas hits $15 per gallon. I'll just be very careful to drive it very little...and I'll stop mowing the grass (hey, maybe there IS an upside to this). I seem to have noticed fewer of those monstrous 'recreational vehicles' on the highways this summer...nice. Bet I can pick one up cheap - wonder how many chickens it will hold.

 

[SR540Beaver 116]

Forget the chickens......how many ducks will it hold?

[scoutingagain 20]

"However long that the people of this country worship unleaded gas, that is how long it will take to solve the Mid-East conflict. "

 

That might solve our Mid-East crisis, but it wouldn't solve theirs. The Mid-East would just become Sudan.

 

SA

 

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

Would we have even put our big toe into Iraq if they didn't have a desert full of oil?

 

"They will have to pry my cold dead lead foot from off the accelerator of my six miles to the gallon Hummer before I ever give it up." John Charlton Carter (I believe that is what he might say.)

 

Once we have no need for their oil, then all they will be fighting over is desert. FB

 

[packsaddle 753]

Well...there's always religion to fight over.

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

That's a good one.

[SR540Beaver 116]

And ducks.

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

Quackers

 

For more years than I want to believe

men and ducks have been at war

with each other hidden in the reeds.

 

Men have guns of all sizes and shapes,

With scopes and

barrels the size of a canons.

Ducks have their quack.

Some say the ducks

have the advantage.

 

Some call it a Holy war

but if you ask a duck

they quack out

hole(e) war.

 

Nobody has complained about

how lopsided it all is.

The ducks, well they just

keep coming back.

 

Who is to say who is right?

What is the point?

Well, nobody knows

or is talking

or is quacking.

 

Each year it all starts anew

Men a hiding and

Ducks a frying.

Ducks, well, they just

keep a flying

 

Some like their duck

Smothered in onion

Others like it well done.

Nobody has asked the duck

How they like theirs

Probably they like it

Out of season.

 

Author will remain unknown

 

[packsaddle 753]

I just searched the forums and was surprised to see how few threads were on the topic of the Iraq debacle. This one was the most recent I could find so after thinking about a really campy movie a long time ago ("Reanimator"), I decided to reanimate this thread rather than create a new one. Suggested new title: "Can't Buy Me Love" http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/16/washington/16policy.html?th&emc=th&oref=slogin

There are some nice nuggets in this article. Here's one: "More generally, the participants said, the president expressed frustration that Iraqis had not come to appreciate the sacrifices the United States had made in Iraq, and was puzzled as to how a recent anti-American rally in support of Hezbollah in Baghdad could draw such a large crowd. 'I do think he was frustrated about why 10,000 Shiites would go into the streets and demonstrate against the United States,' said another person who attended."

Well, Duuuhhhh!

[SR540Beaver 116]

Pack,

 

One of my main complaints about our "liberation" efforts in Iraq is that true liberty is bought with your own blood and treasuer, not someone else's. If I give you a gift rather than you working hard and skimping and saving in order to buy it because you really, really want it, will you appreciate it as much? My belief is no, you won't. It cost you nothing.

 

What has confounded me is the administration's inability and unwillingness to recognize that the middle eastern mindset, culture, traditions, customs and beliefs are polar opposites of ours. They simply don't think like us or value the same things the same way we do. Overthrow their government and set them up a democracy with free elections and what do you get? They elect radical, fundamentalist terrorist candidates to office. Wow! Big surprise there!!! It reminds me of a troop that is adult led instead of boy led. Gee guys, we keep coming up with all these cool outings, but no one will show up? Well duhhhh!!! You are trying to get the boys to do what YOU want them to do instead of what THEY want to do. Success will always be just out of your grasp.