What's happening to BSA - who's in charge

[jkhny 10]

In a thread on Camp Flying Eagle on Scouts-L

 

http://listserv.tcu.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0603&L=scouts-l&D=1&T=0&F=&S=&P=69664

 

 

[BrentAllen 10]

jkh,

I'm glad you've found another site to spew your drivel. Sounds like you've found some compratiots as well. I'm sure your group will have weeks and weeks of fun predicting the end of the BSA.

 

Since you have all the answers, please answer this question. How does the BSA manage to take former Scouts and Scouters and turn them into evil, corporate, 6-figure salary henchmen, determined to destroy the very organization that was so good to them and their sons? Is it brainwashing? Chinese water torture? Mind-altering drugs? How do they do it? Is this done with help from the CIA?

Most professional Scouters I know came up through Scouting as youths. Those that are old enough have sons that are in the program, or have been through it, often earning Eagle.

Why would they ALL want to destroy the program, as you and your compatriots describe?

When are they going to sell Philmont? What about Sea Base?

Does this evil "destroy Scouting" mantra come down from National, or has each Council decided to do this on their own?

What is the BSA going to do with all the funds once they have sold everthing off? Throw a big party? Go on a cruise?

[DugNevius 10]

Im not sure how legit this whole thing is butI dont have too much to say about my council in a positive light. Selling off scout camps, having piss poor Klondikes and camperees and totally squandering national money for Philmont crews, not to mention my issues with our FOS.

[jkhny 10]

 

 

In a sense, yes......Same thing they did when the IRS said they were too "profitable" for a non-profit -

 

Offer the executives a nice cushy early retirement package on their 6 figure salaries - with benefits none of us will ever see in retirement. Full health care, even a car as a "Thank You" Most at the SE level and above live better in retirement than most volunteers do while working. Follow the money......

 

and that's straight from a CURRENT "paid professional"

 

Funny how many private messages I get confirming what I say......

 

If there's nothing to hide, why does BSA hide so very much?

[BrentAllen 10]

Man, you have some real issues to deal with! Maybe you should move to France or some other socialistic country and try Scouting there.

 

Again, if I were as unhappy with the program as you are, I would find something else to do with my time. This can not be good for your sanity - continuing to work with an organization that is causing so much angst in your life.

[evmori 11]

jkhny is nothing more than Merlyn on steroids!

[mgkaiser 10]

Is "BrentAllen" the "company man" who's job it is to keep down the "uppity help"?

 

How does Scouting turn good Scouters into 6 figure goons? One must question if they were ever good Scouters in the first place. The SE is judged SOLELY by how much money he brings in and not on the quality of the program. That is one big reason they do the things they do.

 

BSA does not need more money, they need enough money to run the program. Camps should only be sold if: 1) The council is cash poor, failing, and needs to choose between doing that and shutting down entirely. 2) A better quality camp is available in reasonable proximity and can be bought with the money. A camp should never be sold without a plan of what will be done with the proceeds.

 

Neither of the situations I described is happening in SWFL. The current budget adequately supports Camp Flying Eagle AND Camp Miles. There are adequate funds to operate and improve BOTH camps. Read the 990 form for yourself. And finally, there is no plan of what would be done with the proceeds should the camp be sold.

[BrentAllen 10]

kaiser,

I think you have answered my question. See, I'm a volunteer Scouter just like you - Cubmaster for our Pack, Activities Chair for the District. But since I don't agree with your position on Professional Scouters, I must be one of "them" - one of the bad guys.

The Professionals I know were very dedicated Scouts and volunteer Scouters before they became Professionals. They did not some how magically change when they went on the payroll.

 

It is plain to me you have know idea a Council is run. I guess you, along with jkh, think the Council should be staffed solely with volunteers. Well, go ahead and volunteer to work an 8 hour day at the Scout shop, or answer the phones, or process Tour Permits, or process Summer Camp reservations.... What - you don't have an 8 hour day to donate? Who does??? The program cannot be run without salaried individuals.

 

Just so I get this straight - the bad guys are the SE's, the DE's, the Executive Board members, anyone who draws a salary and gets a company car, and anyone who works at National.

The good guys are the Scouters who only work at the unit level. Is that correct?

What about your District leaders? The Committee Chair and District Commissioner - which side do they fall on?

[mgkaiser 10]

Anybody who believed the organization should be run from the top down is bad.

 

Anybody who believes the organization should be run from the bottom up is good.

 

I DO understand how a council is run. I am in close touch with my DE (whom I think is a "good guy") and my Executive Council member (also "good guy"). I am in the process of getting trained and volunteering for sub-comittee position on the District Board. I am a true believer in the values of Scouting. I have not desire to kill BSA, only to fix it.

[jkhny 10]

As another pointed out - everything is fine in BSA until the issues raised happen in your Council.......

 

These things shouldn't happen in ANY Council.... and those that prefer that the "dissidents" simply leave should reflect on what is at least the "official" position of BSA in that they are a representative democracy that respects a diversity of opinions - (well except for the gay and athiest thing.....) Gotta love the "tolerant" attitude where raising valid issues is always portrayed as an "attack". (BTW did you hear Nancy Grace's rant after Sovreign Smith? THAT was an attack.....bet it helped many parents decide to keep Scouting at arm's length... even O'Reilly seems to have issues.... why is that?) But some Scouts remain "Loyal" despite all - have to love how the "character and values" crowd can ignore and excuse such wrongdoing as long as "it's not happening here."

 

(And France has EXCELLENT child care, great benefits, better health care than here and vacation policies that we can only dream of..... 7 weeks with 4 guaranteed between May and October..... while here "60 Minutes" is trying to convince us that it's a GOOD thing to work 70 or 80 hours a week and skip vacations to make the same your father did working 40 - and HE had real healthcare, vacations AND job security......and his wife didn't have to work so your kids could go to college.....

 

Spend some time going through 990's - its astounding how much some are paid in BSA..... even others are raising eyebrows about the compensation levels for this NON-PROFIT organization..... lots well over $100,000, $200,000 a year - in areas where MEDIAN income is a third of that.

 

Not too many dual income SE families. Seems like there are none in Irving....When so many paid professionals make so much more than the volunteers in Scouting that they are supposed to serve - something is very wrong.

 

There's a very basic issue here.

 

Should BSA be less centralized, representing communities directly with volunteers having a real say in management of their Councils as it was for its first 60 years -

 

or

 

should BSA continue its headlong rush to bigger and bigger Councils - with more distant management NOT accountable to local volunteers, run by ever higher paid professionals?

 

Is BSA a corporation to be run in a way that paid management wishes or is BSA a volunteer organization with paid staff that exist to serve and support the volunteers that make up its membership?

 

You've heard OVER and OVER - from a ton of diverse sources - that the paid professionals are evaluated on TWO things - numbers and money. That's it. You've heard that plain and clear.

 

Counts are designed to boost year-end totals, not measure REAL increased in participation or retention. There's no concern at all about "retention" - in fact turnover BOOSTS the year-end number. There's no real concern about the "quality" (in any real sense) of the program - like days spent outdoors per kid, average years in Scouting for kids AND adult leaders, merit badges earned, and such.... it's all about numbers and money. PERIOD.

 

Somehow the "numbers" aren't even "boys" anymore and the money is a goal unto itself - not the means to provide a "program" for boys.... but then it's also been said over and over that the paid staff seems to exist mainly to raise money to pay their own salaries....... with the SE and REGION and NATIONAL making disproportionately high ones.

 

 

[LongHaul 10]

     I remember the type of Professional Scouter BrentAllen is talking about. We had them in Chicago Area Council at one time. I'm glad BrentAllens council still does have them.  A past DE of mine was known to have more dinner meals at Scouters homes than with his wife because he was always here serving someone. Ive had DEs who could be taken at their word. When they said they would get you something or take care of something you could rely on them. Unfortunately Chicago Area Council is no longer home to the like of them. Our current Scout Executive upon taking office systematically replaced every professional with more than two years service. We have all new people who dont know us or we them, their knowledge of BSA program comes from a book. Those who were scouts as youth are soon made to chose between ideals and their job. Requests for materials go unanswered, I had to go out of council to purchase training materials because our staff Was having a hard time getting them from National Supply Our District Chairman are seen as adversaries rather than allies. To quote a former Asst Scout Exec. speaking to a veteran volunteer As knowledgeable and good, as you think you are. There are thousands of others sitting in the woods waiting to step in and take your place that will do what I want. To quote our Director of Camping This would be a lot easier if we could get rid of the volunteers Charters are inaccurate, training reports do not get filed, membership applications are repeatedly lost both youth and adult. The new professional staff is concerned with fund raising and forming new Cub Packs. Cub Packs which are promptly abandoned with nothing but promises. The systematic dismantling of the program since 2000 has been alarming and frightening. At times is seems that the Council is actually trying to eliminate traditional scouting units, in favor of Learning for Life programs.

LongHaul

[DugNevius 10]

"Somehow the "numbers" aren't even "boys" anymore"

 

Ive heard this before. Rumors in our town is that our council is seeking to re open a troop that had died off about ten years ago. Our town alone has 3 troops, one has about 40 members, ours has 35 and the third has about 20. The idea that our town can sustain 4 troops seems very far fetched, and it will have to take adult leaders from within the 3 troops and their sons to even get one going, thinning the existing troops. The explaination given was that council is seeking to appease national's desire for growth by using a new troop as evidence of expansion even though the number of scouts remains the same and the other troops are watered down. I dont know how legit this all is but adults have been approached to scout interest in a troop leadership.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

if France is so great, why are they having all those riots over there?

[mgkaiser 10]

This isn't about France and we're all going off into left field by going here. ALL of us, the folks I agree with and the folks I disagree with.

 

This is about making Scouting all it can be. If BrentAllen's council really runs as well as he asserts it does, then that is how I want my council to run too.

 

Up to the district level, we run as a cohesive unit. All of us, unit leaders, district volunteers, DE. All of us. We also have a pretty strong, albeit informal, cohesion among districts. But it breaks down at the council level. The SE and the Executive Comittee create the "us and them" mentality. I've never seen any of them in Manatee County. I attend all of the Roundtables, District Board meetings, and District events. Never seen one of them. If I saw them more, or even HEARD from them more I might trust them more.

[BrentAllen 10]

kaiser,

All I can tell you is be proactive - be the one who seeks out and gets to know the Council staff. That is what I have done. I'm in the Scout Shop so often the staff knows me by name. I'm lucky in that one of the top staff members has known my father through Scouting for nearly 30 years. I didn't find this out until after I got to know him.

Attend District Committee training. Attend Commissioner College. You don't have to be holding a position with either to attend the training. Use these opportunities to shake hands with Council staff.

We invited our SE to our District Awards Banquet, and he and his wife attended. He spoke for about 5 or 10 minutes about the Council successes and challenges. Our DD and DE were both there, as was the Council Senior Finance Director, who I sat next to at dinner.

Attend the Council Banquet. Everyone from Council will be at that event.

If you feel like you are standing outside, looking in at the Council, talk to the SE or your representative on the Executive Board and ask them to set up a meet & greet for your District. I think you will find you have much more in common than you think. As with most problems, it usually comes down to a lack of communication.

Bottom line - be proactive. Don't wait for them to come to you - go to them. Once they get to know you and discover your devotion to Scouting, you will start seeing them around. They need you just as much as you need them.