Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Glenn

Younger scouts allowed on campouts/meetings?

Recommended Posts

We had the Webelo's leader tell us that one of the boy's mother will not let her older son (11 years old - Arrow of Light) join a Troop unless her younger son (9 years old) could also join. We are going to discuss this in our committee meeting tonight (2/10/2003) and would like know the official policies.

 

I have a few questions:

 

1) Am I correct in stating that there is minimum age before registering for Boy Scouts? Which manual is this stated in?

2) If only the older boy joins the troop, can the younger boy attend campouts? What are the insurance ramifications of this? If the younger scout is registered as a Cub Scout, would he still be covered by insurance? Again, what manual deals with this?

3) Has anybody else ever dealt with this?

 

It is my opinion that the 9 year old is too young and the Troop should flatly state that we can not allow him to attend any meetings and/or campouts.

 

Lastly, I believe this was discussed about a year ago but I could not find the thread. If any of you know which thread it was, please point it out instead of repeating information.

 

Thanks in advance,

Glenn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To join a troop, a boy must meet one of these requirements: completed 5th grade; turn 11 years old; or receive the Arrow of Light award from a pack. So, technically, it is possible for a 9 year old to meet the joining requirements of a troop. I can see extenuating circumstances where this might work out, but IMHO it's not a good idea. What reason does this mother give for making this demand of you?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Boy Scout handbook outlines the joining requirements. The 9 year old must wait to join, he needs his AOL or to be 11 years old.

Those are the rules. Boy Scouting is not able to meet the needs of a 9 year old. He needs to go be in Cub Scouts.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he has to complete requirements as a Webelo in order to get his AOL. Even if he has his AOL at 9 somwhow, I think the troop could still use the age and grade as a joining requirement. Hopefully Bob White will comment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The joining requirements for Boy Scouts:

 

Meet age requirements: Be a boy who has completed the fifth grade, or is 11 years old, or has earned the Arrow of Light Award, but is under 18 years old.

 

The requirements to earn the AOL:

Be active in your Webelos den for at least six months since completing the fourth grade (or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old), and earn the Webelos badge.

 

If for some reason this 9 year old is in 5th grade, then possibly he has earned his AOL. This is not very common.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The advancement requiorements for Cubscouts would prohibit a 9 year old from earnng the AOL.

 

The problem here is that the parent does not understand the methods of the various scouting programs. She needs to see the New Leader Essentials Training to understand that the programs have been developed to be appropriate to boys at specific ages and stages of their social, physical and emotional development. the Boy Scout program is not appropriate in it's activities for a 9 year old. Not only would they be beyond many of his current capabilities socially but could be physically dangerous as well.

 

BW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a scoutmaster let me answer # 2 and 3, You already have answers for # 1.

 

#2 BSA is not a baby sitting service, thats what it appears she wants. She need to understand older brothers need time from younger brothers. The younger one needs to stay with cubsand then join troop when its time. Younger brothers do not belong at meetings and outings. It only distracts from the program for the Boys. A family weekend is different but the focus then is not on the boys but on the family as a whole.

 

#3 We were confronted by a dad that wanted to involve the younger brother all the time, we had to stop it because it was causing lots of problems in the troop with distractions.

 

My advice would be DO NOT do this. Do not let her try and blackmail you into allowing this. Explain the differences and tell her younger brother is not allowed as a matter of rule and for safety reasons. Cubs are not allowed to do a lot of the things Boy Scouts can do. After explaining this to her if she won't change her mind, furnish her a list of other troops and wish her and her son well and tell them you are sorry he won't be joining.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First off, thanks for the responses so far.

 

To answer some of the questions, the mother (single mom) does not want to have two different meetings/campouts for her two sons. She does not feel she will be able to transport them to two different weekly meetings.

 

Secondly, the Webelos den leader has let the boy attend his meetings for the past two years. So I believe the 9 year old will have received his Arrow of Light. Whether this is actually legitimate or not, I have no idea.

 

Thanks again,

Glenn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bob White, you refer to Cub Scout requirements prohibiting a 9 year old from earning his AOL. I do not believe this to be correct. Similar to Boy Scout joining requirements, I only know of grade requirements OR age (Be active in Webelos 6 months since 4th grade OR becoming 10 years old.) Am I missing something?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One can be sympathetic with this mom's concern about two different meetings, sets of events, etc, but the Webelos leader probably should not have allowed the younger brother to tag along in the first place. It should also be noted that non member youth can participate in scout outings if they are considering joining. While there is no minimum age limitation on this of which I am aware, common sense suggests that such youth should be eligible to join, or eligible very soon, to be invited to participate in scout outings. We routinely create events where we invite second year Webelos to participate as a recruitment device. These are all age appropriate and appropriate to the capabilities of younger boys as we see them. But it would be mistake for everybody to subvert the clear rules and allow this mom to force the younger brother into something he is not ready for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the spirit of Scouting and being a good neighbor, could some of the parents work with the mother on carpooling the boys to the different meetings?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only way the younger brother could have legally earned his AOL is if he has skipped ahead in school. You are right, Cub requirements are age or grade, just like Boy Scouts. The requirements for AOL incudes being active (in BSA parlance, "registered")as a Webelos for six months since completing the fourth or since turning 10 years old. Unless the kid has skipped a grade or two, I don't see how he makes it, and as Sctmom says, that's not very common now days.

 

On the other hand, if the Webelos leader is saying the boy has "earned" his AOL by having attended and participated in all the activities, that's not right either. Per the above, he can't be a registered Webelos and therefore cannot have earned the AOL. Sounds like the Webelos leader has done them a real disservice.

 

But still, you hate to see the older brother get screwed because his mom has her heel dug in. If transportation is the problem, try to work something out. Try to get to the root problem and overcome that. Right now, the mom has found a problem she can blame on someone else. The younger brother should be eligible to join the troop this time next year, so the problem isn't going to last forever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can sympathize with the single mom up to a point. When my son was only 3, my wife had a work assignment that took her out of town for almost a year. she was home less than 36 hours on the weekends. Not unlike being a single parent who's ex has the kids on the weekends. However, much of parenting is about sacrifice. Many, many single parents (male and female) have multiple kids at different ages that are involved in different activities. Two kids on different baseball teams with different game schedules and tournaments at different parks. A son in some team sport with a daughter in cheer. The list and possibilities are endless. This sounds like a matter of convenience for the Mom and she wants an organization to bend their rules to accomodate HER. I guarantee you this, if it were a sport, 99.9% of coaches whould not allow a brother who is 2 years younger to "play up". And the older brother "playing down" is strictly forbidden in youth sports. Not to be mean-spirited, but she either needs to suck it up or get creative in how to get her kids to different places. Chances are, their meetings won't even be on the same day at the same time. She has to go on campouts with her younger son, but not her older son. There are ways around the problem, I see people do it everyday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are correct,I suppose there might be some 8 year old 4th grader out there somewhere, but I would doubt he had time from his studies to be a Webelos Scout.

 

You are right though, technically if he was promoted to fourth grade at 8, and had completed the AOL in fifth grade at 9, he would be eligible to crossover. Unfortunately I don't feel that he would benefit from the experience.

 

Just because he is a head of the curve academically he is still a nine year old in most respects and the Troop program would be inappropriate.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While it's rare for a child to be allowed to skip a grade anymore, rarer still is a child who skips based on purely academic criteria. Although it was more common when we were kids, I can't imagine a small, immature kid being allowed to skip grades based solely on classroom performance. Almost by definition, a boy who has skipped a grade likely has the social skills and maturity that goes with it.

 

As district Roundup chairman, I bet I had a hundred parents ask me about their seven-year-old kindergartener joining Tigers. While it is ultimatly the parents' decision, I always tried to steer them away from it (to the dismay of my registration-hungry DE). I think it is better that a boy is in the a den with his classmates and peers, rather than being the lone boy a year behind the others. The esprit d'corps you get with all the buddies in Scouts together is a big part of the experience.

 

Although the situation never came up, I think the converse would be true, too. If a boy is being held back a year and he and all his buddies are eligible to join, it may be a good idea for him to stay with his peer group.

 

But again, my main point is that if the boy meets one of the age/grade requirements, then it's the parent's call.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×