OA ceremonies and church sponsored units

[stlscouter]

In what way do the OA ceremonies affect the belief systems of church sponsored units? Dicussion anyone?

[GernBlansten]

Having been tapped out, gone through the Ordeal and ceremony myself, I have not seen anything that would be in conflict with any religion I'm familiar with. However, I'm a pretty easy going guy and don't get wrapped around the axle over much.

 

Oh wait, there is that sacrifice thing I'm not supposed to talk about!!!KIDDING!

[Rooster7]

I'm not a big fan of OA ceremonies when they celebrate multiple Gods and talk about animal deities. These ideas are against my faith. I must assume some church sponsors feel the same way.

[OldGreyEagle]

I think the OA cermonies effect the belief systems of church sponsored units about as much as the Billiken effects the belief system of the Catholic church

[stlscouter]

I guess part of my question revolves around all of the religious posts and policy I've been reading here etc. but:

 

Are the Scouts mocking a religion (spiritual belief) when doing the "Native American 'stuff'"?

 

Are any of these recitations contrary to their sposoring institutions?

 

Because the OA is such an intigral paret of the BSA,is the OA providing the religious framework that some scouts might use to question the religious policy of the BSA? That is a boy may be an atheist (but not having told anyone) but perform ceremoies could he claim this "portral" as his religion and therefore be within the boundries of the BSA policy?

 

Just asking-I know some denominations years ago forbade their scouts to be in the OA but were allowed to be in the scouts.

[GernBlansten]

Ya know, stlscouter, you may be onto something.

I'm a diest and as a diest believe god is part of nature and the environment. The OA ceremony reinforced my belief. Probably didn't do much for the Christians, but I was very moved. Didn't put much thought into the polythiest theme of the ceremony. I suppose if I was uptight about seeing other religous views, it might upset me.

[Rooster7]

I suppose if I was uptight about seeing other religious views, it might upset me.

 

I have no problem seeing other religious views or practices. However, the OA is open to all faiths. Ceremonies which require participation by members and/or candidates, should be generic in their approach towards God. Christians should not be made to recognize Pagan, polytheist gods. I find this kind of ceremony offensive when my sons or I are brought into them.

(This message has been edited by Rooster7)

[GernBlansten]

So Rooster,

in the same vane, should my son and I be offended when at a scout meeting or dinner, the name of Jesus be invoked as a diety to be worshiped?

[Rooster7]

I knew that question would follow. No, I don't. Because a prayer is an offering which is made by an individual. You can support it or ignore it. In contrast, a ceremony requires one's participation.

 

However, if a troop is NOT sponsored by a church and the only prayers ever offered were by Christains, then I'd say you have a legitimate complaint. As I said, I don't mind seeing other religions (i.e. hearing their prayers). A prayer offered by someone else, doesn't require my direct participation.

[tjhammer]

The BSA is open to all faiths, and member requirements should be generic in their approach to God. Non-Christians should not be made to recognize Christian doctrine. Hmmm... yep, that sounds like a good policy, Rooster.

[Rooster7]

Christians are not the only ones that believe homosexuality is wrong. I'd venture to say there's probably a few atheists that feel it is wrong too. Some might argue that homosexuality goes against nature. I wonder what the Indian cultures have to say about homosexuality.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

You could look up "berdache" or "two-spirit" to find out.

[GernBlansten]

It all comes back to homosexuals to you doesn't it Rooster. You seem fixated on that topic. This topic is about the religous aspects of the OA ceremony. I guess you could conclude that some of the costumes used during the ceremony is also sported by one of the Village People and that OA is promoting homosexuality. I don't think so, but then again, I'm open minded.

[Rooster7]

tjhammer brought homosexuality into the discussion when he implied that my stance on OA ceremonies was hypocritical in relationship to my stance on homosexuality. I was merely trying to explain to him why I felt I was being consistent...and that Christianity was not dictating BSA policy.

[Proud Eagle]

Can someone please tell me what part of an OA ceremony is talking about some sort of pagan spirit? I taken the part of all four principles at one time or another. I have also been a part of all of the ceremonies provided by national. Now what some lodge may do at a call out I can't speak to. In my experience there is nothing inconsistent with Christianity in the ceremonies of the OA. Recall the OA ceremonies were written by a Christian man who at other times in his life was a church youth minister, wrote Christian hymns, and even preached from many pulpits. The ceremonies of old actually contained numerous references to God. The current ones usually only make a passing reference.

 

Obviously if this is going to get into details we should probably move to the safeguarded area.

 

I do know that the Catholic Church once had a problem with the OA. That was mostly due to the fact that the Church does not like secret organizations or societies in the least. However, once the Church gained a better understanding of the Order they eventually decided it was OK.

 

Several other churches went through similar things. Generally after things like the ceremonies were shown to various officials it became clear to most that OA was OK.