So What Would You Do?

[Bob White 20]

"My point is Atheists arent buying airtime to convert anyone."

 

What exactly would they offer as benefits that would persuade a believer to change? Holidays? Retirement benefits? Healthcare?, A big Club house to meet in? Family outings?, Catching songs? Those are just a few things that faith and religion offer. What have you got?

 

 

[Trevorum 24]

Xena, Warrior Princess!

 

What a great show! My sons and I loved every cliff-hanging moment. And a very moral message, despite the paganism, with all 12 points of the Scout set Law in ancient Greece.

 

But OGE, Pantheism is something else entirely. See http://www.pantheism.net/

 

I think what you mean is polytheism. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytheism

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

Dan writes:

If the BSA allowed atheists to join how would you keep the Merlyn Leroy's out of your troop? I do not think you legally could.

 

Sure you could; just have people in your troop like yourself who vociferously hate atheists. They'd probably start a new troop instead that doesn't prejudge people based on their religious views.

[dan 10]

SemperParatus

Sorry that I came on so strong, I should have just stated that I think your numbers may be incorrect, instead I made is sound like you did it on purpose. I apologize.

But I am still waiting on an answer about the local option, and how it would work.

 

Acc040

Let's look at this rationally, you are incorrect.

 

Merlyn

I do not hate atheists or you and I even understand why you want to be in the BSA, it is a great program.

 

 

I cannot imagine a BSA troop not saying the Pledge of Alliance.

 

 

 

 

[DugNevius 10]

" just can't even imagine what the motivation would be to spend money to convert people toward No god. Getting to sleep in on Sundays? Scripture calls out Christains and LDS to seek new followers. Passionate followers will of course spend their money to use the most modern methods they can afford to follow Gods word."

 

" What exactly would they offer as benefits that would persuade a believer to change? Holidays? Retirement benefits? Healthcare?, A big Club house to meet in? Family outings?, Catching songs? Those are just a few things that faith and religion offer. What have you got?"

 

Haha. Interesting.

 

So, if its pretty silly to try to sell atheism to christians... WHY are so many people so scared of having an atheist around their christian kids? Afterall, there are "no benifits" to being an atheist. This doesnt strike you at all to be a bit absurd???? You are convinced it is a pointless effort for atheists to promote their beliefs, but you dont want kids around them because they will promote their beliefs... despite the fact that its pointless.

 

And for the record, i am not an atheist.

 

 

[Bob White 20]

Its not that they will "turn" our children. It's that they lack the ability to fulfill job responsibilities.

 

I wouldn't hire a lifeguard who didn't believe in swimming.

 

"Passionate followers will of course spend their money to use the most modern methods they can afford to follow Gods word." "

 

Who cares how passionate they are or what methods they use? That has nothing to do with the BSA. Remember they don't even need to belong to a specific church or religion. They have to accept the existence of God and be able to meet the requirements to do duty to God and be reverent.

 

For someone who is not an atheist you certainly don't seem reverent in your comments.

[DugNevius 10]

Having an opinion that is in conflict with the opinion of Bob White is not irreverent.(This message has been edited by DugNevius)

[dsteele 20]

Sorry, Dug, it's just the luck of the draw and nothing personal.

 

The above comment is a turning point where these discussions seem to leave the Scout Law behind. I sense a temper or two (mine isn't one of them) about to flare in inappropriate ways.

 

This is what I meant in the other thread when I stood with Eamonn and the others, folks.

 

Unc.

[Eagledad 2779]

>>WHY are so many people so scared of having an atheist around their christian kids? Afterall, there are "no benifits" to being an atheist.

[DugNevius 10]

sorry UG, but you jumped the gun.

 

Eagledad- "It doesn't matter what religian one is, the BSA wants role models that represent those values."

 

Yes, but the whole point of this topic was the hypothetical situation where the BSA had changed its veiws in regards to allowing Atheism and homosexuality not conflict with BSA principals, therefore leaving it up to each scouter to make a decision:"Do i stay or do i go?" Therefore the arguement against Atheists can not be made with a premise against that claims its a violation of policy. This leaves the reasoning being that atheists will try to influence scouts to disbelieve the faith that they were raised.

 

But a few have stated that Atheists have nothing to sell. That creates an irony to their reasoning.

 

Now, it is my belief that no group of people, be it atheists, homosexuals, christians, Muslims, Hindus, neoplatonists or any other group or race can ever be accuratly described and labeled by blanket statements, rather it is the individuals who must be scrutinized. All priests are not child molesters. There are many people of strong religious faith that are immoral and likewise there are many homosexual and Atheist people that are much more moral then their religious and heterosexual counterparts. There are many trained scoutmasters that are still not that good. FDR was a decent president.Blanket statements are the tools of the ignorant. Atheists are no more likely to attempt to convert kids on a camping trip then Roman Catholics, Baptists, Mormon, Muslims, Jews, and other religions and ANY scoutmaster that uses his position in authority, no matter the faith or lack of, to persuade any scout of any faith has sadly overstepped his rights.

 

The topic is: What would you do if Reverant was changed to Thoughtful, if atheists and homosexual adults who passed background checks and the youth protection program, were allowed to be a part of the BSA?

 

If this was so, the "lifeguard who didn't believe in swimming." arguement is no longer applicable.

 

[DugNevius 10]

um... No response?

[evmori 11]

The topic is: What would you do if Reverent was changed to Thoughtful, if atheists and homosexual adults who passed background checks and the youth protection program, were allowed to be a part of the BSA?

 

I would put all my Scouting stuff in a box & mail it to Irving. In other words, I would no longer be part of the BSA because I don't feel atheists & homosexuals are good role models for young boys. I actually feel they are morally bankrupt.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Trevorum 24]

Ed,

I have never been to Pittsburgh where you live and I cant speak for your acquaintances. However, every atheist or gay person I have ever known has been, without exception, an wonderful person, an upstanding citizen, and a good role model that I have been happy to have around any of my children. For example:

 

Larry is a blue collar worker. He doesnt believe in god but hes a volunteer fireman and his entire family gives their time at the homeless shelter. His kids are all polite, generous, honest, and respectful. I wish some of the kids in our troop were more like them.

 

Don is a musician. He is gay but doesnt make any deal about it and most people dont know and dont care. Hes a wonderful story teller and has an amazing rapport with children. He has been with his partner for 17 years. He is a devout Christian and is quietly passionate about his faith.

 

There are lots of others. You are certainly entitled to your feelings, but I wish to point out that blanket generalizations such as atheists & homosexuals ... are morally bankrupt is as hurtful to good people and is as easy to disprove as horrendous statements like blacks are licentious, or Arabs are violent, or Jews cant be trusted. I know you wouldnt make any of those statements.

 

BSA is a private organization and can set its own membership standards. That doesnt mean we should insult, hate, or hurt those who arent allowed into our club. Thats simply not courteous or kind.

 

[Prairie_Scouter 10]

I personally wouldn't have a problem with it. If a person passes the BSA background checks, that would be fine with me.

 

In the real world of Scouting, for example, it shouldn't matter what organized religion you belong to, or if you even belong to one. Just doesn't come up. If the restriction on atheists and gays was removed, it shouldn't even be a topic of discussion. Are there parents who would have a problem if their SM was Roman Catholic and they were Jewish? Possibly, if the topic came up or if the leader pushed Roman Catholicism. But, a good leader wouldn't be making an issue of religion or lack thereof or their sexuality. I've talked with parents who only want troop with a male SM; they don't think that a female SM is a good "male role model" for their sons. If it was important enough for a parent to ask, then they could make a judgement on which troop to join the same as they make decisions based on program, size of the troop, etc.

 

 

[DugNevius 10]

Hmm... Busy ladies response in the other post about Homosexuality being a sin not to condone, and a few other members who are using the Duty to God and Morally bankrupt lifestyle have led me the think a Logical Experiment is needed.

 

You all believe in God. After all a scout is reverant.

 

But answer me this, first, Ed, Busylady, BW and anyone else:

 

Is God all Knowing or is he flawed?

 

Do you believe in Free Will?