How's that for irony?

[KoreaScouter 13]

So, while I'm keying in a reply on the thread dealing with the donated backpack, which has driven off the declaration-of-religious-principle vs. athiesm cliff, I look off to the right side of my monitor, and in the "ads by Google" box, is a link to YouthScouts, which doesn't incorporate a religious principle and allows homsexual members.

 

The ad link doesn't pop up on every page, but seems to whenever the active thread includes athiesm/homosexuality.

 

So, while we're circling the wagons and defending our right to associate, we're providing free advertising for "the competition"...

 

KS

[packsaddle 753]

Yep, noticed it. A good one for my collection. Ronald Reagan used to like to speak of the "magic of the free market". Maybe that explains it.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

KS says:

 

So, while we're circling the wagons and defending our right to associate, we're providing free advertising for "the competition"...

 

I'm wondering who is the "we" in the first "we're" and who is the "we" in the second "we're." I have to assume that the the second "we" is the owner of scouter.com, since he is the only one "providing" anything around here, and more to the point, the person who makes the decisions about what advertising (or advertising services, in the case of "Ads by Google") to place on this site. (And by the way, it's not "free advertising," is it? I would hope that it is paid advertising.)

 

I do see the irony. But the forum owner also provides a section on Girl Scouts, which could also be seen as "competition" in the 14+ age group. Or if you mean "competition" in terms of the idea of admitting or not admitting certain people, I have seen no official expression of what this forum's opinion is on that. He's just providing us with a place where we can talk about it, and I (and I assume most of us) appreciate it.

 

As for "Youthscouts" (youthscouts.org) I had never heard of it before, but I looked at the site and found a lot of neat legal briefs to read. "Youthscouts" does not appear to have any units as of yet, at least none that are mentioned. Their sole tangible activity to date seems to be litigating with the BSA over their use of "Youthscouts," and the real issue in the case seems to whether the BSA has exclusive (actually co-exclusive with the GSUSA) right to use the word "Scout," standing alone, in connection with a youth organization.

[dan 10]

 

since he is the only one "providing" anything around here

Dude ain't that the truth.

[Fat Old Guy 11]

I wonder if there is any litigation over "Spiral Scouts" or "Earth Scouts."

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Last time I tangled with the Spiral Scouts, I got changed into a newt!

[eisely 13]

I have always understood that BSA owns some trade marks, and the word "scouts" by itself is not covered. What is covered is "boy scouts". I could be wrong about that, but that is my current understanding.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Eisely, I think you are correct that there is no trademark for the word "Scouts." But it's a bit more complicated than that. I have read or at least skimmed some of the documents filed in the trademark case between the BSA and Youthscouts (actually there are 2 cases but the more interesting one so far is the one pending before the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, Trademark Trial and Appeal Board) and the BSA does seem to claim at least some rights in the word "Scouts," at least the right to prevent someone else from using the word as part of a trademark for a youth organization.

 

But rather than me try to explain the BSA's position, you can read it for yourself. Go to www.youthscouts.org, click on "News," which will give you 4 links, click on the bottom one ("Youthscout's Motion for Judgment, etc."), then scroll down on that document and you will see a numbered list of documents 1 through 13 (actually 13 through 1.) The main document with the Boy Scouts' position in text form is number 10 (it is listed as "Other filing" but it is the one you are looking for.)

 

This is a brief (ha ha, it's 24 pages long plus about 15 pages of exhibits, but that is really a medium-sized brief) in which the BSA explains among other things why "Youthscouts" should not be permitted to trademark that word for a youth organization. The good stuff starts at section C.1.

 

I haven't really had a chance to closely read it, and honestly it isn't the easiest thing in the world to follow, so if you do, maybe you can explain it to me.

 

Other interesting documents on that list are number 1 (filed by BSA) and 4, 8 and 13 filed by Youthscouts, and if you want to skip some of those I'd say the most important overall are 8, 10 and 13 (they all get pretty long so if you print them I would at least de-select the exhibits or you will wind up with a lot of dead tree.)

[KoreaScouter 13]

OK, NJ, the irony slipped past you...disregard all after "hello".

 

KS

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Evidently so, KS. I must have given irony up for Lent. Or Passover.

 

By the way, for Eisely and everybody else, I found something else linked to those trademark documents. If you scroll back up the document that has the links for documents 13 through 1, you will see "Boy Scouts of America" as a link. Before you click on it, note the name of the BSA's trademark attorney right underneath it, which is interesting to me only because I have met the guy, in fact I referred a case to him once. He is a well-known and well-respected specialist in the field of trademarks and patents (which no doubt, is why the BSA hired him.) So anyway, when you click on "Boy Scouts of America" you will get links for EVERY trademark dispute in which the BSA has been involved in the Patent and Trademark Office for what looks like 1976 forward, and there are 69 cases. These are only cases in which one party is challenging the issuance of a trademark to another, and in the vast majority of the cases the challenger is the BSA. (The only exception I saw was a case, apparently still pending, in which BSA is attempting to register "Pinewood Derby" as a trademark and various parties including the "Pinewood Derby Suppliers Association" are challenging it.) Two of the cases I followed the links for were, Silva company was trying to trademark "Explorer" as the name of a compass, and some little company was trying to trademark the phrase "Star Scouts" for videotapes about space exploration, and the BSA challeged both. (Apparently both gave up, though the system doesn't say why.)

 

This is not, however, the full body of BSA trademark litigation. It only covers litigation in the Patent and Trademark Office before a trademark is approved for registration. It does not cover trademark infringements suits which would be filed in a U.S. District Court. So the fact that SpiralScouts (which has a TM symbol after it) does not appear on this list does not necessarily mean that the BSA has not tried to stop them from using it. There does not seem to be any logical reason why they would let SpiralScouts go without a fight in light of their challenge to "Youthscouts," not to mention many of the other challenges that might seem more peripheral, such as Silva wanting to name a compass the "Explorer."

 

[OldGreyEagle 5]

There is an old saying about how things are viewed all depends "on whose ox is being gored". Well, after perusing todays (April 7th) postings I noticed some attempts at what was hopefully attempts at humor at various religions expense. I felt one targeted at mine's particularly offensive and was ready to blast the perp when I rmembered my "newt" comment and thought, "Dang you idiot, you did the same thing". That being said, I apologize to all who may have been or will be offended by my Spiral Scouts comment, I was channeling Monty Python, but in retrospect it is as offensive as any irreligious comment made on the forum.

 

Again, I apologize for my comment

[packsaddle 753]

OGE, I must have missed something. What was improper about the 'newt' comment, except that as a land-dweller you would have been an 'eft'? I kind of liked it.

Oh yeah, maybe I missed the stuff about religions as well. Uuuuuuh, or maybe I just don't 'get' this stuff. Probably. BTW, I did like the song (there's a Lion King version?).

[Proud Eagle 13]

I am glad to see you got better.

 

Now lets go see if the spiral scouts weigh the same as a duck...

 

 

[Fat Old Guy 11]

Why a duck?

 

Monty Python Meets the Marx Brothers

[Bob58 10]

Why a DUCK? from the Holy Grail.... witch hunting 101.

 

Sorry but this is a rather imprecise process.

 

2 huge scales one holding a duck the other a person acused of being a witch.

 

 

The ratioale...

It he / she weighs less than a duck he/she will float.

 

If it floats its like wood.

 

What do we do with wood -

BURN IT!

 

What else would one do with a witch?

 

There's a skit in there somewhere, but I hope my boys don't find it!

 

Sorry I found it very funny as a youth & don't apologize for my strange sense of humor or ridiculous Englishmen.

Bob