Rules not covered by the Scout Law

[NJCubScouter 1389]

That may be true, FScouter, but "mountain out of a mole mound" doesn't sound as good.

[Bob White 20]

"Maybe those who write the books live in a different world."

 

Let's consider that for a moment. First of all it is currently impossible for that to be true on a physical level.

 

On a philosphical level perhaps. But it is we who agreed to be the volunteers in their world. We signed an agreement to follow their program, not the other way around.

 

On a practical experience level, I would agree that not all volunteers (and the books were written by volunteers) operate the program at the same level, but think about how the people who wrote the handbooks were selected. It was because of their ability to deliver a quality program. Do they operate scouting in a way that might seem unworldly to some? I hope so!

 

Bob White

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Adrianvs 10]

"Maybe those who write the books live in a different world."

 

No comment on that per se , but I have more than once imagined some individual charged with reviewing and possibly changing some policy coming to a forum like this to get advice from scouters. He is then told, in no uncertain terms, what the current policy is and that the discussion is finished. Remember, the policies and methods of the organization aren't some Deposit of Faith which has been handed to humanity complete. It was built (supposedly) by people like us from their and other's experience of what works. And it has been changed many times for many reasons.

 

The specifics of procedure do not follow from the Law. "A Scout is Helpful." Does this not indicate that he should call the members of the committee and inform them that he needs a BoR and then set the room up in advance? No wait, a scout should be helpful to his fellows. I guess this means that fellow scouts should form the BoR..

Following a known rule is a matter of obedience. But the word "obedience" gives one no indication as to what that rule should be.

 

The point of all this is that the Law and the program are distinct and any number of very different programs can be "plugged in" to the Law, so to speak. That is what makes the Oath and Law so great. They apply to all of one's life, regardless of what he is doing. So, if you are a member of a troop, you need some more structure and rules to dictate what is to be done. The Scout Law and Oath aren't enough.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

I didn't realize scheduling of Boards of Review was such an issue. In my son's troop, boys get pulled out of whatever the "main event" is at the weekly troop meeting for a variety of reasons: Board of Review, Scoutmaster conference, meeting with merit badge counselors, working with an ASM on advancement, meeting with Eagle advisor on projects, etc. There are various rooms, hallways, stairwells etc. to do all this in so as not to be in the way of the main meeting, though sometimes the meeting itself will just break up into groups working on different levels of advancement. For obvious reasons, all these various activities do not take place during those moments when there is an organized activity that really requires everyone's participation. From what I have seen so far, other than things like announcements, there are not enough of those highly organized moments anyway, though fortunately there is a new SPL who seems intent on giving more structure and content to the meetings. When he succeeds, I suppose it will become more of a challenge to schedule the various "other activities," but I'm sure everybody will figure out a way to make it work.

 

[Rooster7 11]

I'm staying out of this one. I don't know the abilities or character of of the persons responsible for writing the handbooks in BSA or eslewhere. However, I have to comment on this supposition.

 

...but think about how the people who wrote the handbooks were selected. It was because of their ability to deliver a quality program.

 

Unless you were there to witness it, I'd say this statement is a huge assumption at best. It's akin to saying - Consider why someone is promoted to the position of manager. He/She must have the ability to run a quality program. The reality is, many folks get into positions (even handbook writing) not because of their ability, but because of something else - politics, schmoozing, whatever - but it aint always ability - that's for sure.

[scoutingagain 20]

I can't quite figure out how the title of this thread got around to discussion the pros and cons of when to have BORs. Our troop handles them very similar to the way NJ's does.

 

There are other rules Troops impose that don't seem to have much to do with the Scout Oath and Law though. Most seem to be oriented towards maintaining some degree of order, discipline or someone's idea of what the scouting experience should be. i.e. many troops ban the use of CD players and Gameboys. I don't disagree with such a rule but don't see them covered in the Oath & Law.

 

In fact on our last campout, it rained all day Sunday. While our troop doesn't ban the use of electronic gadgets, they are discouraged when we are not travelling. Since it rained all day, we didn't do much except hang out under the dining fly. One scout had his CD player and I asked him what he was listening to. He told me the Bee Gees. He then gave me an intensive disertation on how he thought the Bee Gees were the best group he'd ever heard. He had all their albums, knew every song and whatever history was associated with it. Now I'm old enough to remember the Bee Gees before Saturday Night Fever. Two of my favorite songs were Massachusetts and the New York Mining Disaster. I couldn't get over how this 15 year old was so into the Bee Gees. We had a great talk about the group and on the ride home listened to his CDs. One of those great moments in connecting with a kid that wouldn't have happened had I put on my "NO CD PLAYERS ALLOWED!" hat on.

 

The title of the thread reminded me of the moment. I don't know how you guys got so involved with scheduling BORs.

 

SA

[KoreaScouter 13]

Every aspect of youth behavior will fit into the Oath/Law somehow. For the troop administration stuff, if you need to write it down in order for the adults to remember, go ahead.

 

The program's for the boys. If our Advancement chair has enough time at a BOR, we'll slide another lad in there even if he thought he'd only have time for three, but there's 20 extra minutes. They're all ready; why make 'em wait if it isn't necessary...

 

KS

[Bob White 20]

Good for you KS, I would have expected no less from you.

 

The idea that the ideals of the program, as expressed in the Oath and Law, can be separated from the program itself is flawed from the start. It is the values foound in the ideals of scouting that is the skeleton that gives the program form. The program is merely an outer expression of the values. for the program to function as designed both the methods of scouting and the behavior of the members must follow the traits expressed in the Oath and Law.

 

Every behavioral decision of a scouting member is expected to use the Oath and the Law as its guide. That is precisely the mission of the BSA.

 

Unless you have personal knowledge or experience that proves otherwise I stand by the view that the program materials were written by people who can make a good program happen. I have met some of these people and speak from personal knowledge rather than personal skepticism.

 

Are there rules not covered by the Scout Law. Since rules are what you decide to follow and the Law is what you should base the decision on I don't see how they can be separated.

 

Are there rules not covered in the scouting resources. Sure, but they are for the most artificial rules. As we saw in the example of the BOR the program does cover it. Whether the unit follows the program suggestions is up to the unit. Ignore enough program features and the only part that becomes recognizable as scouting is the uniform.

 

Scouting never promised to do things our way, we promised the scouting program that you would do it the BSA way. More importantly we promised the scouts they would get a scouting program. That is the program that scouting wrote.

 

Perhaps we could call this first one a draw. Who can give another example of a rule a unit needs to have that is not already covered by the law or a scouting resource?

 

Bob White

[Fat Old Guy 11]

" First of all it is currently impossible for that to be true on a physical level."

 

That's what they want you to think.

[Fat Old Guy 11]

" First of all it is currently impossible for that to be true on a physical level."

 

That's what they want you to think.

 

" I have met some of these people"

 

And you prostrated yourself at their feet in abject adoration.

 

Considering the number of stupid laws that are written by local, state and the federal government, assuming that people who are assigned to a task are the best qualified, is really . . . is "silly" too strong of a word.

 

Consider that these well qualified volunteers are responsible for the current handbook. A similar group really did some strange things to Scouting about 20 or 25 years ago.

[Bob White 20]

"And you prostrated yourself at their feet in abject adoration."

 

I will accept that in the Friendly, Courteous, and Kind manner in which I'm sure it was intended.

 

No actually, I said hello and served on training staffs with a few of them. I want apologize if any small amount of credibility on my part interferes with anyones personal joy of sharing in baseless criticisms of unknown voluteers.

 

F Scouter,

I thought Peter and Paul made Mounds and Almond Joy?(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[FScouter 24]

"I want a Clark bar!"

[OldGreyEagle 5]

But, WHAT would YOU do for a Klondike bar?

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"I thought Peter and Paul made Mounds and Almond Joy?"

 

Close but no cigar. No, Peter and Paul wrote a bunch of espistles. Peter Paul made the candy bars. Historic evidence points to Peter Paul being a mole in disguise.

 

 

[Rooster7 11]

Sometimes I feel like a nut!

 

For some reason that popped into my head. I don't know if it was inspired by the candy bar talk or the conversation before that. Either way, for this particular thread, it seems appropriate.

 

Oh yeah...

 

And someimes I don't!