The Mystique of Woodbadge?

[packsaddle 753]

Kudu's comment in the parent thread brought back my own memory of taking a 'Creative Problem Solving' course back in the 1970's. Different instructor. I learned a lot more about leadership, however, from the Arbinger Institute and their course. Or, perhaps, after the intervening time I was merely better prepared to receive the message.

Anyway, it seems that most of us are well-experienced in outdoor skills regardless of Woodbadge. I have to admit that after reading some of the commentaries in these threads, my initial attraction to Woodbadge years ago has evolved into suspicion and a general thought that it would be wasted on me.

But, this unit continues to thrive. They boys are having a great time. They advance, they learn, and they mostly direct themselves. We don't live up to all of Kudu's standards but this isn't a Stepford troop either. I suspect we're similar to a lot of other units.

The only things I can think of that I'm missing, not having done Woodbadge, are the ability to argue in these threads authoritatively and...the mystique. So what is the mystique? I sense that there is one but I can't quite describe what it is. Kind of like the Masons. They are about as mysterious to me as the Ku Klux Klan. Not that I'm comparing Woodbadgers to Klan members, no siree. But there is a certain mystique.....

[Lisabob 13]

I don't think there's as much a mystique, as a sense of camaraderie. But that's just me. If a person really wants to, they can find just about every detail of WB online, including the course syllabus. And anyone who attempts to convince a person to take WB primarily based on "mystique" is an idiot.

 

 

[skeptic 995]

In my opinion, the "mystique" is nothing more than, as Lisa indicates, the camaraderie garnered from working very closely with the patrol, mentored by dedicated and honorable Scouters. You get a very similar vibe if you attend a course at Philmont I think. Enthusiasm and team participation go a long way in giving Woodbadge its special place in scouting. And, yes, it generally has a kind of unique elan in its membership, even while there is the constant friendly patrol kibitzing. After all, until I became an "honorary Fox", I was only an Eagle; and Eagles swoop down and carry foxes away, don't you know?

 

The followup to the ticket process strengthens these links to the program I think, as it perpetuates it past the initial group dynamic. And most of the time, the whole patrol knows when one of their members completes their ticket, and they often are at the beading's.

 

Just my thoughts.

[Eagle92 110]

Ok this is based upon my observations and experiences as I have not attended any WB course, only the BA22 course back in the day. So please correct me if I am wrong in the following. I rather be told the correct info, politely of course, than contineu beleive the wrong stuff.

 

1) initially WB was rather hard to get into. If memory serves, the first courses were done a few times on the national level, and you had to get invited to them. As they moved to the regional level and more courses were required conducted, you still have to have tenure to get in. I do not know the tenure requirements for the CS WB trainer course, nor the short lived Exploring one, but the for SM had a 2 year tenure requirement as an SM or ASM if memory serves that, at least when I was first offered the chance, could only be waived if you were an 18-20yo scouter who aged out of the program. I was offered the chance at 19, 20, but had to turn it down due to family commitments, and again at Gilwell at 21 (chose the WSJ instead.)

 

So getting into the course was challenging

 

2) As others have commented the bonding. let's face it two things will happen if you stay with folks 24 hours a day over a 7 or 8 day period in which you MUST work together as a team: you either gel together and become an awesome team, or you have a bunch of individuals who refuse to work with each other despite it being easier if you work as a team ( that was my BA22 patrol, and one of the patrols at the JLTC I staffed)

 

3) The ticket. It takes some time, and use to get you out of your comfort zone tso that you apply what you learned. At least what I was told. So you had to go meet people, use district and council resources, etc to work your ticket. Again this is hearsay on my part, but the current way of doign tickets do not challenge as much as the older format. Again hearsay form folks who have either did both courses or staffed the second course.

 

4) BP. BP created the first WB course. Some of the traditons and regalia are still there after 91 years.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

Eagle 92 recounts that it was difficult to get into Wood Badge at one time. Perhaps part of the problem these days is that it is too easy, and efforts are made to oversell the program.

 

 

I was just at our Council Coordinated meeting Thursday ("Council Roundtable"). We were pitched on the council recognition dinner, Sea Scouts and ten minutes on Wood Badge.

 

Wood Badge prmos are quite common, and beading ceremonies amount to Wood Badge promos as well.

 

Our Council holds Wood Badge programs twice/year. I don't know how hard they must sell the program to get the number they need, but perhaps too hard.

 

Perhaps part of the problem is pitching Wood Badge too hard. I took the course in 1985 and I was happy with it, but if the new course is just repetition for those who've had a lot of management stuff perhaps we should forewarn people of that rather than encouraging them.

 

Wood Badge is expensive in time and money for students. It take a lot more time for skilled staff. Is flogging the Wood Badge program for maximum participants and sections a good use for those resources?

 

I know a major reason I've never taken WB21C is that it would require me to give up doing things valuable to Scouting if I took it, yet there are apparently an efforts to flog the new Wood Badge course to those who took the old course. Why?

 

Perhaps fewer classes would be better for Scouting. Not eliminating it, just not marketing it as aggresively and doing a better job of targeting who would really benefit.

[jhankins 10]

It takes the same amount of effort to run a Wood Badge course for 30 participants as it does for 48, so why not have a full course if possible?

 

In my council, each staffer recruits three people. That would amount to 59 participants, except as we all know, life happens and things come up so that someone may not be able to attend. We then have a waiting list for each course that makes it feasible to keep a course full.

 

Some things in Scouting have a certain mystique, don't they? When you hear an Arrowman refer to the Obligation or to the Watch Words, you know they know something you don't, and it piques your interest a little. A little mystique to Wood Badge is a healthy thing, but if questions are asked, they should always be answered. Participants are paying good money and donating good resources to make Scouting happen, and they should always be told what those resources are going for.

 

Is the ticket really challenging? It's what you make of it. It's a personal contract with yourself as a participant to take what you've learned and apply it to whatever you see fit. I do think many courses fail to communicate the message and meaning of the ticket clearly when it's presented on Day 1. I've sat down with many presenters of that presentation and the ASM-Troop Guides to help them better define the purpose of the ticket and how to communicate it to the participants. It's not always an easy subject for people to grasp, especially when writing that dreaded ticket.

 

 

[OwntheNight 10]

From my personal experience, at the end of my course our Course Director told us to talk about the merits of Wood Badge and how it helped us. But they also asked us to not talk about the details of the course so that new participants can experience it and make their own assessment of the course.

For me, OA has more mystique about it, why? Because I wasn't in OA as a youth, and I haven't been asked as an adult. I also choose to keep the mystique there by not going out and researching the ceremonies and finding out as much information as possible. If I am ever asked to serve in the OA, I want to be able to enjoy that moment without thinking to myself, "OK, A has been done, now comes B, then C"

As far as Wood Badge For me, it was like going back to summer camp for a week, except I had that "If I knew then what I know now" moments. I had a blast at Wood Badge, because it really gave me perspective and purpose about Scouting. I was one of those burnt out leaders who was providing a poor program to the boys I should have been serving. I came away re energized about Scouting. I also realized this "game" is what I love to do, so I recommitted myself to Scouting and decided this is where my efforts should be focused.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

>

 

 

I'd say because it's not McDonalds where the aim is to have "billions and billions" sold.

 

If you using marketing analysis to identify populations vulerable to a marketing pitch, but who aren't going to benefit markedly from the program, you are not being helpful, friendly, courteous and kind.

 

If you are discouraging people from learning about the program themselves so they can decide if it's suitable for them, and promoting a "mystique" instead, you aren't being very honest with people.

 

 

In other Wood Badge threads that are going on I think there's a good deal of agreement that people who took the old course really aren't going to benefit much from taking the new course. But that population has been identified as one that can be sold the new course, and people are encouraged to market the program to those people.

 

That takes people away from doing useful things rather than attending Wood Badge again. It also takes up space that might go to other people when courses fill up.

 

Frankly, I'm a good deal less interested in encouraging Wood Badge participation now that I see the cynical way it is being marketed.

[jhankins 10]

Where's the cynicism? Is it cynical to want your time as a volunteer to have maximum effect for your effort?

[Twocubdad 665]

Stepford troops, I like that. My guys would refer to them as a Pleasantville troop. I guess we're showing our age.

 

E92 described how comraderie and bonding add to the mystique of Wood Badge pretty well.

 

My understanding, mainly from a good friend who took and staffed the old course -- and please, I'm not trying to rekindle the new vs. old argument -- was the old course had a lot of "you will be given the information you need in due course" stuff. After about two days of that, Ida punched somebody. But I believe making folks scratch and sniff to find out stuff was part of the teaching technique.

 

The fellow who was the course director for the 21C course I staffed still had a lot of that in him. You asked him what time it was and you got five minutes on appropriate use of resources. Don't give me that. My hands are in raw hamburger, my sleeves are down and I want to know if it's time to check the Dutch oven. WHAT FREAKING TIME IS IT?

 

Our staff instructions for the 21C course (ca. 2006) were to answer questions honestly, both during the course and with potential participants before. Of course there are a couple things which are better if you don't step on the punch line. The one thing we were asked not to discuss in detail was the ticket. It wasn't a matter of mystery, rather all participants come to the class day one all wound up about the ticket. Our purpose was the get them to relax and quit worrying about it. Much of the first couple days covers material which will help them to develop their ticket. The fear was they would jump the gun and prematurely lock-in a ticket without benefit of the full picture.

 

I don't know that there is a lot of intentional mystery anymore, maybe just an assumption of mystery.

 

And by the way, I think the idea of targeting old course Wood Badgers to take the new course is asinine. I used to be in marketing and that ain't no marketing strategy. Marketing seeks to fill a need, this is just hearding cows into the barn. The suspicions and ill createe was fairly forseeable. Besides, if someone is so gung-ho they are willing to repeat the course, they know all about it and are fully capable of seeking out a seat. Personally, there's NO WAY I would retake any version of the course. Okay, if Kudu teaches the 1916 version, I'd take that, just for the fun of it.

 

Around here, the drive to put butts around picnic tables and pound out courses is driven by the long line of council types who seek Good Ol' Boy immortallity with a fourth bead. It's better than a Silver Beaver. They give those out to anybody. But the plaque at camp for course directors is really small.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

>

 

 

Ummm. Last Thursday we had our Council Coordinated meeting (Council Roundtable).

 

Probably 15 minutes was taken pitching Wood Badge to people who mostly had already taken it or certainly heard about it. This included introducing course directors selected for next year. I thought that rather odd at the time.

 

There were probably 200 Scouters there at least. That was 50 man hours of time that was mainly wasted.

 

I'm starting to develop some sympathy for the anti Wood Badge faction that I hadn't felt before:

 

Over hyping and overselling the program is a waste of time and energy.

[Lisabob 13]

Let's separate out some strands from this discussion.

 

On one hand we have questions about the content of the course. I don't think there's a lot of mystique about that anymore. People who want to know what is covered (and what isn't) can find out, either by asking people who have gone through the current course, or by asking staffers, or by spending a few minutes with google.

 

On the other hand is the question of marketing. I have noticed that there are a LOT of things that get marketed poorly by local volunteers. FOS, popcorn sales, WB, practically any district or council program, you name it. Apparently very few of us have careers as marketing execs because the pitches at RT for all of this stuff are reliably, routinely, awful.

 

As a matter of fact I can be very impatient when I think my time is being wasted. And so I try to stay away from a lot of the places where that's likely to happen (RT being one, sometimes!). So I'm sympathetic to what SeattlePioneer is saying. However, it is useful to step back and ask: am I objecting to the content, or just to the form?

[Kudu 186]

Packsaddle,

 

Do you mean the "Mystic" of Wood Badge?

 

"In the summer of 1898 Baden-Powell took a trip to Kashmir which convinced him that the outdoor life, enjoyed purely for its own sake without any military objective, was immensely valuable. Before setting out, he paid considerable attention to his equipment.On this trip he adopted clothes that he would occasionally claim as the inspiration for the Boy Scout uniform; these included the Stetson he had worn in Rhodesia and a flannel shirt, but not the famous shorts. Yet in spite of all the planning, Baden-Powell viewed camping and walking in wild places as an experience which transcended practical considerations.

 

Going over these immense hills - especially when alone - and looking almost sheer down into the deep valleys between - one feels like a parasite on the shoulders of the world. There is such a bigness about it all, that opens and freshens up the mind. It's as good as a cold tub for the soul.

 

"With a collapsible bath in this luggage, Stephe was equipped to cleanse his body as well as his soul. His father's pantheistic book, The Order of Nature was a significant influence upon him, as a sub-heading in Rovering to Success makes plain 'Nature Knowledge as a Step Towards Realizing God'. Baden-Powell also used to quote Bacon's aphorism: 'The study of the Book of Nature is the true key to that of Revelation.' In a bizarre way he managed to combine camping equipment, adventure, and religious sensations in a remarkable synthesis.

 

"In his published Matabele Campaign he described his camping impedimenta as his 'toys' and then went on: 'May it not be that our toys are the various media adapted to individual tastes through which men may know their God?' Quite literally Stephe worshipped what he called the 'flannel shirt life' and everything that went with it. 'Not being able to go to my usual church (the jungle) on Sunday, I went to the garrison church instead,' he wrote to Ellen Turner, more in earnest than tongue in cheek [Jeal, page 203].

 

"Katharine Furse described [b-P] with more than a hint of tongue-in-cheek as 'the inspired mystic of Scouting', but this was actually how he was seen by millions. This image owed much to his growing tendency to represent Scouting as a form of religion. 'Scouting is nothing less than applied Christianity,' he had written in the introduction to a pamphlet entitled "Scouting and Christianity" in 1917. In 1921, he wrote an article entitled 'The Religion of the Woods', in which he argued that observing the beauties of nature was the best way in which to apprehend God and that no one religion held a monopoly of truth. This made him very unpopular with churchmen [Jeal, pg. 515].

 

Baden-Powell: The Inspired Mystic of Wood Badge:

 

http://inquiry.net/ideals/beads.htm

 

"The Religion of the Woods:"

 

http://inquiry.net/ideals/b-p/backwoods.htm

 

The Order of Nature:

 

http://inquiry.net/ideals/order_nature/index.htm

 

References to Pantheism in The Order of Nature:

 

http://inquiry.net/ideals/order_nature/pantheism.htm

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

(This message has been edited by Kudu)

[John-in-KC 311]

Pack,

 

Lisa's posts have the right of it.

 

My District Chairman has been the District Commish, is an Eagle Scout, holds the Vigil Honor in the Order, and is a Sagamore in the Tribe of Mic-o-Say. He has the Silver Beaver, ... you get the point. He's a good friend, someone I deeply respect. He's also an entrepeneur, owner of a dirt-moving construction company. Time for WB? NWIH! If the weekend is at all nice, he's either doing something Scouting, or has his butt in the seat of a dump or a dozer, getting a little ahead on a contract.

 

Point is this: It's who we are, not what we wear. If our handshake is not our unconditional bond, everything else is hooey. You've probably forgotten more Scouting than most WBers will learn in the course.

 

I'd love to be on a camp commish or Regional visitation team with folks like you, Barry, SR540, Lisa, Beav... or else find some nice piece of backcountry to have a weeks' camp away from the madding crowd.

[packsaddle 753]

Kudu, I wish I'd thought of that twist. Point taken. I do appreciate the concept of the 'Religion of the Woods' and I think I understand this in a profound way.

John, Indeed. In fact I spent a good long time this afternoon crafting more dreams into plans for the next excursions. Now just need to work to make them happen. Thanks everyone. I think I'm going to let the Woodbadge mystique whimper by...perhaps, however, pay more attention to the Woodbadge Mystic.