Issue with transfer scouts, any options?

[kari_cardi 10]

I keep getting bombarded by these parents, so I thought I would ask here in regards to the situation. We have two families that joined a different pack during spring recruitment and paid for the year at registration. The pack did not follow through with any of the promised activities over the summer nor did they register the boys with council. So the two families came to us. We took them as transfers and asked them to pay dues. They want a refund of the money they paid the other pack from SOMEONE, they don't want to pay our dues. Council has put them on scout assistance for registration this year, but says there is nothing else they can do. I keep telling them that there is nothing our pack can do. They don't understand why the other pack is 'getting away with this.' Thoughts? One parent did say she has tried to contact the other pack leader but gets no response.

[fred8033 1599]

Are your dues relatively small? Less then $150. Is your pack at all financially healthy?

 

If so, make the problem go away. It's fighting a losing battle, distracting and wasting time over what is probably a minor amount of money. The key is that trying to fairly resolve the situation just promotes hard feelings and prolongs a really bad situation.

 

Wave their dues for the year and swallow the cost. Then, you can focus on the fun of scouting. At least it sounds like the council is willing to register them not at your cost. That's great. My answer depends on the health of your pack finances. If at all healthy, make the issue go away and not talk about it.

 

The most important thing is to get this family having a positive scouting experience. By waving the dues, you'll win their gratitude. You can ask the other pack for a refund, but their position is probably that the family choose to leave. Not their issue. Dues are not like a deposit into a scout account.

 

If you had thirty families in this situation, my answer would have been different.

 

At least it sounds like the district is familiar with the issue. Hopefully, they can pay some attention to the other pack and maybe provide some training, guidance, advice or other.(This message has been edited by fred8033)

[KC9DDI 11]

It sounds like the family in question, while understandably upset, might not really understand the way individual BSA units operate, in relation to other units and to the district. Basically, that the two packs' treasuries aren't connected.

 

They don't understand why the other pack is 'getting away with this.'

 

Do what you can to help them understand. But also offer to help - perhaps contacting the CM, CC, or UC for the other unit yourself might help resolve the situation?

[momof2cubs 10]

My first instinct was to suggest that you calmly explain that each unit is an independent body and there is NO way of "transferring" the dues from the old pack to the new pack. Then calmly explain to them that it will cost your pack X amount of money to provide a good program for the boy(s) and that you cannot get it from the other pack either.

 

But after reading fred's post, I am inclined to agree with him. If there is ANY way for your pack to eat the costs this year, it is best to do so. I think that at best, even if you do end up getting the families to pay your dues, it will leave a bad taste in their mouths and will most likely not bring those boys back next year. Not worth it.

 

I would, however, see if you can talk to someone at the district or council level and explain their situation. It is in the realm of possible that someone up the chain can apply some pressure on the old pack to step up and do the right thing. Not likely though.

[Twocubdad 665]

Our pack would likely do just as Fred suggests. But we have over 100 boys and sell something on the order of $30k in popcorn, so absorbing a couple hundred bucks is not worth your time and hassle, much less ticking off the other families. Clearly, if you can afford it, that's the high road.

 

But if you are a more average pack, with maybe 15 or 20 boys and just scratching by, then you need to show the parents your budget and explain the them why you can't afford to waive the dues for them. Do your best to come up with a compromise both the pack and families can afford. Perhaps you could come up with a pro-rata figure for the portion of the year they've been in your pack. Or you could come up with an ala carte cost for the real, cash-out-of-pocket expenses the pack will incur with these Scouts.

 

Try to take the emotion out of it. "But everyone has to pay their fair share" isn't going to be any more productive than the parents crying "but we already paid the other pack." You need to get past that.

 

But the parents need to understand your position, too. Scouting isn't free and you have absolutely nothing to do with the other pack. You can't be expected to make up for the sins of the other pack on the backs of your boys. If they can't understand that and meet you part of the way, then wish them well and move on.

 

And just as an aside, it doesn't sound like the council has done much to solve this problem for you. Basically, they're covering less than $30 for the two boys and are passing it off as scholarships at that. I'd give my DE a call and "thank" him for dumping this problem off on you. No, he didn't have any more to do with creating the problem than you did, but he should have at least as much interest in keeping these boys in the program and their families happy as you do. Suggest this year instead of having a Friends of Scouting campaign your pack holds a Friends of Pack XX night to cover the cost of bailing out the other pack.

[kari_cardi 10]

We do not have the money to waive our dues. Our budget is overstretched as it is. The families were told this when they joined. It has been made very clear that our dues need to be paid no matter what happens with the other pack. We have also explained many times that each unit is individual and not related to the other, and that they need to pursue the issue with the other pack.

 

District has offered scout assistance in the form of registration fees and uniforms that exceeds the amount that the families paid in dues to the other pack, and it has been accepted. It has been explained to them that normally they would pay for these items themselves. The parents still want the dues refunded.

 

I am not going to talk to the other unit leader. I don't even know who it is. I don't think it would be a productive conversation. Under similar circumstances, we would refund the balance of the dues that had not been spent on that scout, but I can see that not every unit can do so.

 

 

[kari_cardi 10]

Thank you Twocubdad, you've summed up the situation pretty well. We have shared our budget with them, we have shown them what a great program we run on a lean budget. I posted because I want to make sure that I've thought/tried everything I could. After writing it out, though, I don't think we are going to be able to make these two families happy the way they want to be happy.

[momof2cubs 10]

Well sasha, it seems like a no win situation. If they don't want to pay you (because they already paid the other pack) and you cannot afford to waive the dues, then sadly, they may have to find somewhere else to be.

 

It's a shame, but that's the way it is. And I like twocubdad's suggestion. Sometimes you gotta be PA with district and hit them where it hurts (the ONLY place it hurts, the wallet. They care about little else)

[Twocubdad 665]

If the pack key leadership feels you've done everything you can and are at the end of the line with these families, then my next step would be to meet with the COR and make sure he/she is on board. (Any time you have a situation which could get sticky make sure you have your CO's support. And sometimes, depending on your chartered organization, the CO may have a bit of a rainy day fund and may offer to make up the difference.)

 

At this point, all the jazz with the other pack and what the council has or hasn't done is just background. You now need some procedure for dealing with a family which won't pay dues. Your committee should think of it in those terms and develop a policy/procedure you can live with going forward.

 

Figure our what you want to do and send the families a letter. Copy the DE on the letter.

 

When I was pack CC we had a Webelos II den of about four boys which refuesd to pay pack dues. The DL felt since they had already paid the BSA dues they didn't need to pay for the six or seven months until crossover (she was a bit wacko, never really understood what her issue was.) Since the were current with their BSA membership through the end of the charter and not wanting to go through all the mess of removing them from the roster, we told the whole den they were on their own as far as resources went -- any advancement materials were purchased by the DL or parents, the boys were not given Pinewood Derby cars, the DL was not reimbursed for any den expenses. In that particular case they crossed over prior to recharter, but otherwise we would not have rechartered them.

 

Sounds to me that these families have a bit of a chip on their shoulders due to their experience with the other pack. Makes me wonder if there is more to the story with the other pack. Regardless, you're just a volunteer trying to do the best you can for all the Scouts. Move on.

[Eagle732 27]

Do you know that they actually paid dues to the other pack?

[SSScout 1616]

Sad. I find Fred's comments to be very well thought.

 

These folks just might be some that suffer from the >>Soccer Syndrome

[Basementdweller 608]

first off all the leaders, both Packs, need to put on their big boy pants

 

First thing you need to know is how much did the family pay the other pack total. When did they pay it and if they have an ISA how much do they think is in it.

 

Call the other Pack cub master and talk with him. If that fails, show up to their pack meeting place early. Be polite and concise.

 

I have been on both sides of this, The scout thing to do is to transfer what ever money has not been used by the program yet. my example is, if they paid 30 buck, you have already went to the zoo for 10 and the pinewood for 10 then we would transfer $10 which is the remainder of their fee to their new pack. I also include a summary with the transfer check to the family and to the new pack treasurer.

 

 

I have never had a problem with another Pack or Troop's leadership regarding Troop or Pack funds.

 

 

So Sasha have you called the other CM?

 

[Twocubdad 665]

Ummmmmm.....I don't think I would go down that road, Base.

 

First of all, if someone from another unit, whom I don't know from Adam's housecat, calls and asks questions about another family's finances with the unit, they're not going to get a lot out of me.

 

I don't think that's Sasha's responsibility. The parents need to work with the other pack to get a refund, if one is due, or the district, if things get to that level.

 

I don't see where Sasha needs to put on her "big boy pants." She's trying to run her program, which includes paying for the same. Her boys -- and the money will come from her boys -- don't need to make good for the problems in another unit.

 

Of course, we would all see this differently if these families were destitute, but there has been no mention made of that.

[ScoutNut 147]

The district/council have nothing at all to do with unit dues. That is entirely up to the organization that OWNS the unit.

 

The council is covering the BSA registration and uniforms, which I feel is over and above anything they are required to do.

 

It is now December and these families have still not purchased uniforms for their sons?

 

They are getting freebies that more than cover what they claim to have paid in Pack dues, but still want more?

 

It sounds to me like there is something fishy going on here.

 

Find out from your council who the Charter Organization is for their former Pack. Give these families contact info for that Charter Org. Explain the facts of life (again) to these families. Let them know that while the council might be paying their BSA National registration, your Pack can not afford to carry them with no Pack dues payment. Either they pay your Pack's dues, or they find a different Pack. Period.

 

 

[Basementdweller 608]

Yes it is Sasha's responsibility to make this happen. Your a leader act like one, man up or woman up and call the other packs leadership.

 

Not know who the other unit leader is, is a really lame excuse....a simple phone call to the DE would net the number and a supporting phone call from the DE would probably help give basis for your request.

 

As outlined in previous post there are four basic choices. 1st get the money from the other pack. 2nd get the money from the transfer families 3rd Get the money from Sasha's Pack 4th send the family packing.

 

I would take the signed copy of their transfer application with me to the other Pack's CM and show it to him and ask for their remaining balance in form of a check written to my pack with the boys names in the memo line. Pretty simple in my book.

 

I get tired of this non-confrontational crap.

 

I guess that I am luck in that I have a good relationship with my neighboring Packs, well the ones on the inside of the beltway. for me a simple phone call is all it would take.

 

 

Twocubs.......Our collective fates are tied together. They already have a poor opinion of scouting. If sasha calls and retrieves their money from the other pack it will show them dedication and give them a sense of justice. Even if she doesn't retrieve it and tells them of her efforts.

 

 

To me just simply absorbing the cost or writing it off isn't an option.