cub scout funds transfer to boy scouts?

[DeanRx]

I still don't understand how some of the packs out there only send monies to a troop if a scout crosses-over. Those that don't and drop, the pack keeps the funds?

 

I'm glad its worked out thus far for those units. However, I am VERY surprised you haven't had a scout's parents hit you up for "their share" of the scout's account when the scout doesn't track into a Troop.

 

Maybe its because most of those that cross-over are the activies with larger amounts in individual accounts? Those that are on the fringe and drop-out likely haven't been very active in fundraising, I would assume, so maybe they don't have much $ to ask for?

 

Still - seems you would be setting yourself up for trouble when one set of rules applies to those crossing into a Troop and their is a seperate set of rules for someone that simply ages-out or quits. Hope no one that quits has a parent that is a trial lawyer - I'd think the unit would be up to its ears in hot water.

[NWScouter]

The major thing you need to do is inform everyone of the rules when they join and when you update them with the amounts of their scout account. In the ten years I was scoutmaster we never had a problem with the rule that if he went to another troop the money went with him. Didnt have many do that though. We even kept scouts money separate after they dropped out in case they came back. In a few cases I had to remind the treasurer that Billy wasnt going to rejoin because he was 20 now.

[gwd-scouter]

One of the Webelos Dens that is soon crossing over to our Troop has scout accounts in their Pack funds. I don't know if they will send all of the funds in these accounts along with the Webelos, but I do know they have written checks from the Pack treasury to cover the registration fee and initial troop dues for some of the guys. I really was surprised by this since it's the first time I've heard of a Pack in our District setting up 'scout bucks' accounts. It isn't even common practice among our Troops. As far as I know, ours is the only Troop that does this.

 

Regarding the Pack keeping money in the general fund from those guys that do not cross-over, what should they do with the money? I can't see writing checks to the parents. Seems to me the money is put into individual scout accounts to be used for scouting things and the parents don't get a refund if their scout doesn't continue in scouting.

 

mmcnulty - from your initial post I take it your Pack does not set up individual scout accounts for profits from fundraisers. Back when I was a CM, our Pack didn't either. In that case, I would say you are under no obligation to send any money along with the Webelos when they cross over or when a Cub Scout moves to another Pack.

[ScoutNut]

Scout Accounts are NOT a little side business of the Scouts. If that were the case, all of the Scouts would have to file income tax on the amount every year.

 

The money in Scout accounts does not actually belong to the boys at all. It belongs to the unit, and ultimately, the units Charter Organization.

 

If you have a parent of a Scout who is no longer a member of BSA, demanding "his" money, simply explain the money is NOT his, it is the CO's to do with what they want.

[DeanRx]

ScoutNut-

 

Thats my point exactly. The funds belong to the CO and by default the unit. I agree that a scout that drops shouldn't get a "refund" check cut to him or his parents.

 

However, I do see it as a double standard if the same scout gets his personal account $ transfered to a troop from his old pack when they crossover from Webelos.

 

My point is - that is NOT the scout's money to take with him to a troop. If it is earmarked for individual scout accounts, then the scout either needs to use it while still in the unit in which the funds were raised, OR they forfeit the money to the unit's general fund.

 

I say its a use or loose issue and should be stated as such up front when a cub joins. To have money from cubs follow a boy to a troop, yet retain a drop-outs money in the pack's general fund creates a double standard within the unit. Double standards begets problems in my expirience.

[rjscout]

I don't agree with the double standard theory. The Popcorn sales are to help raise money for scouting. The 'scout accounts' that we have are to be used for Summer Camp, where the boys get 10% of the funds raised over $300. The 2nd year Webelos are (potentially) Boy Scouts before the 'camping fund' is used. If we exclude their use of the 'camping funds', they could decide to not sell popcorn in their last year, which could reduce the overall funds that we raise. I have not problem passing along the 'camping funds' for them to use at the Troop. Those who do not continue don't get their account because they won't be camping as a Scout.

[Gunny2862]

DeanRX,

I can't see what you aren't getting.

To me you have answered your own question several times:

 

"Besides, as other posters have stated. The funds technically belong to the CO. They are just "earmarked" for the individual scout in the unit. The scout leaves, then the earmark is removed and the $$ goes into the unit'd general fund."

The funds being owned by the CO they can allocate them as they wish - I just hope they have a written policy on this.

 

"I'm surprised you haven't been faced with an outbound scout (and parents) with their hand out expecting the Pack to cut them a check. After all you pay out for a scout's transfer... why not their 'severance' package? "

Because it's not a severance package for either of them.

 

"I still don't understand how some of the packs out there only send monies to a troop if a scout crosses-over. Those that don't and drop, the pack keeps the funds?"

Yes, exactly, the funds were raised for Scouting activities - the only way the pack can be sure they will be used for such is to either keep them or forward them to a Troop with the former Cub Scout. A Webelos or other Cub who quits/ or graduates would have to spend the money for Scouting activities or Items and be reimbursed if the Pack rules allows them to do so or lose it. At my Troop an inbound Scout - former Webelos who brought a Pack check from his former Scout account, joined and then quit would either have to purchase Scouting items "backpack tent, etc" and be reimbursed form those funds or forfeit the funds he brought with him to the Troop. Anything else does bring on the wrath of the IRS as you note earlier.

 

"My point is - that is NOT the scout's money to take with him to a troop. If it is earmarked for individual scout accounts, then the scout either needs to use it while still in the unit in which the funds were raised, OR they forfeit the money to the unit's general fund."

Unless the Pack or Troop have a written policy - and follow it.

 

"I say its a use or loose issue and should be stated as such up front when a cub joins. To have money from cubs follow a boy to a troop, yet retain a drop-outs money in the pack's general fund creates a double standard within the unit. Double standards begets problems in my expirience."

I'm guessing you mean "use or lose". And if that's the Troop/Packs policy I would agree, but Troops/Packs have different policies - and as long as they follow them and the IRS doesn't have an issue with them...

As to the Double-standard: that comes from not understanding that even though there is a virtual scout account the money never really belongs to that scout and is raised for Scouting - and if it supports the individual Scout for gear or activities then fine, If it supports the Unit then fine, but it shouldn't ever get handed to either an on-going Scout or an out-going Scout for their own purposes outside of Scouting - because that is a fraudulent use of the money that was raised for Scouting.

[Twitterpated]

We just recently had a situation where a den leader quit the pack and wants the money from her son's scout account. Our policy (which she voted on as well) was that we only transfer the money if the boy transfers to a pack/troop within one year of leaving the pack.

 

She recently quit and was demanding the scout account money and would not release some of the other scout's items she had at her house until she was given the money. We literally had to have a exchange where we hand over the money and she would hand over a boy's scout items. It was pathetic that she used this boy to barter for money. We finally gave in though just to get this debacle behind us and not have the boy lose the momentoes. (Which could not have been purchased or replaced.)

 

I'm worried now that the other parents know we gave into this person's demands that they think we set a precedence to writing out a check to any boy that leaves.

[nolesrule]

Don't forget to send that former den leader/parent a 1099 next January. They'll need to pay taxes on their income.

[ScoutNut]

Scout Account monies are part of the payoff for this former leader? The one who charged the boys in her den $15/month and left them with no supplies?

 

Sorry, but that was just silly. You should have gotten the IH of your Charter Org involved in all of this. She was stealing, from the CO, the Pack, the families, and the boys.

 

Personally, if she was refusing to release items that belonged to my son, I would have had the police pay her a visit.

[Scouter&mom]

our CS pack does not do individual accounts and as a rule, neither does the BS troop sponsored by same CO. However, the troop does a BBQ in the spring as a fund-raiser specifically for summer camp. That money is allocated to the scouts for summer camp based on the tickets they sale. This year each scout gets $3 per ticket towards his summer camp fees. Webelos that are joining the troop (even if they didn't complete AoL and will not transfer until school is out) are encouraged to participate. Most of the Webelos in the troop either come from pack sponsored by same CO or one other pack. Those boys are told when they visit the troop the first time, that the troop does the BBQ and that they can participate.

 

The troop has not had money come from either pack with the boys as they joined the troop. We had several brothers transfer to new pack and troop in town and they went with no expectation of money going with them and there were no hard feelings.

 

[IM_Kathy]

when my son was in cub scouts our pack took the $ raised by the boys and % went to the pack and % went into the boys camping accountant (which is money in the pack bank account but was on paper distributaed to each boy)... when the boy went to summer camp as a cub he got to use that money to help pay for camp... when the boy crossed over into boy scouts that money went with him if he hadn't used it all... our treasurer wrote a check to the troop and listed how much went for each boy. If a boy did not move up to boyscouts though then that money stayed with the pack.

 

so when my son crossed over he had like $30 still in his account and it transferred with him and we used it to help pay for summer camp.

 

we did have an issue when we switched troops... the troop we were with only allowed their boys to use the money for summer camp or for a philmont like outting... so my son still had a bunch of money that he had earned to use for camp. When we switched troops they did NOT want to transfer that money... BSA rules allow each troop to decide on their own how to handle this situation... our former troop was not going to transfer it... their belief is that a boy who transfers troop soon leaves scouts - not the case here he left for a stronger troop. after several discussions and me stating that the money was designated for summer camp that once he made the 1st half of paying for summer camp that they would then transfer the money to help with the 2nd 1/2 of payment.

 

to me if the boy worked to earn money to be used for his scout camping then it should be kept with the boy for scout purposes... now if a boy quit scouts then it should stay with pack/troop.

[Gunny2862]

Kathy,

Exactly.

 

However, if it WAS and IS the old Troops policy that it was to be used for summer camp then that's fine. But I don't see the distinction where they shouldn't have allowed "his" account to transfer to the new Troop - unless they "as policy" don't transfer money out to another Troop. And at the point that funds are transferred to the gaining Troop the distribution of funds should rest on the gaining Troop as to whether it's used for Outings, Uniforms, Philmont, Summer Camp or other Scouting related activities.

[Twitterpated]

 

 

Sorry, I don't know how to quote or refer to another post on here so I put it in brackets.

 

Believe me, I thought about calling the police. But, it was already a horrible situation that was just getting ridiculous. All of the District people and CO were involved, but it came down to just doing what it took to resolve this situation. I don't know if we could have really pressed charges on her or not and for the most part, people (CO) didn't want to pursue it that far. Personally, I would have liked to have taken it further just because I feel that her behavior was so unlike what we teach the scouts. She ended up getting her way by blackmailing. It REALLY angers me, but there comes a time when you just have to suck it up and go on. Continuing to be angry about it didn't help the pack or the committee in moving forward. Live and learn, I guess.

 

 

 

[Gunny2862]

Twitterpated,

How much money was involved here?

 

Regardless of the amount, as was suggested before, you need to consult a tax attorney and consider issuing a statement of earnings to the adult the money was given to.

That alone should put the kibosh on people asking for those funds - it's one thing to harass a Scout Leader it's another thing when they realize the IRS will ask for their portion of the funds - typically the hold back and the additional hassle of filing makes it not worth taking the funds.