Young Den Chief

[ManyHats 10]

We have a young den chief that basically went straight from cubs to being a den chief. He's having a really hard time separating himself from the cubs. For instance he asked if he could put his name in the drawing for prizes at one event. How would you handle the situation?

[theysawyoucomin' 10]

I think this is one of the reasons they think you should be a First Class Scout before doing this POR. Real live normal first class scouts that really know their stuff are about 15 months out of the pack and know what they are there for.

 

Some like my DC years back and my son who just completed his were second class at the start but went to first before their tenure was up.

 

You folks blew it by allowing this. Find a way to say he can do it again later, have the SM give him a very likable very good POR that will help the boy out of the situation with some dignity.

 

Going only from your post he is simply not ready.

 

Maybe DC training would help but waiting for district or council to teach it isn't a great place to be.

 

Do something now. This kid should be working on trail to FC, not trying to lead.

[WAKWIB 107]

dittos to uz2bnowl. First Class would be a good benchmark rank for that position. If he literally has just crossed over to the troop, no way he is ready to be a den chief.

[scottteng 11]

He might do better if you placed him with a Tiger den rather than older cubs. First class is too lofty for den chiefs by the time they get there they have been patrol leaders etc, But Tenderfoot for tigers, 2nd class for bear/wolves and first class for Webelos would maintain age separation

[John-in-KC 311]

I know a Venturer who reached back and was a Den Chief. She did a good job too.

 

Nothing wrong with being First Class to be Den Chief. In fact, if you look at BSA literature, Tigers, being a 1/1 parent/child program, don't have Den Chiefs.

 

That doesn't say it doesn't happen, it says the literature...

 

Den Leader needs to have quiet and mature talk with Den Chief. He needs to understand he's a Boy Scout. If he's not been through Den Chief Training, DL ought to sponsor him, and indeed attend with him if possible. ADVANTAGE: They obtain mutual expectations.

 

CM needs to have quiet talk with SM. If this is the quality of support the Troop is going to give the Pack, guess who's going to steer boys away from the Troop? Heavy handed? Yes. The last time I checked, though, Troops need boys moving up from the Webelo program, unless they have an active new Scout straight out of late elementary or middle school recruitment program.

[theysawyoucomin' 10]

iS THIS BOY AN OLDER BROTHER OF ONE OF THE CUBS?

 

oops caps.

 

Is this an older brother?

 

Maybe the thing do do is read him the lit where it says you have to be a first class. Tell him you made the mistake and tell him when he is a First Class that you would be happy to have him back. May even spur him to "turn to" on the first class items.

 

Back to the older brother question. Sometimes the family dynamic isn't great between the leader and the led. Might be better if all the cubs were strangers to start.

 

 

[Stosh 3452]

Rank achievement in the Boy Scouts is not a valid measurement of DC qualifications. An Eagle Scout that has no interest in younger boys is not qualified to be a DC. A Tenderfoot that wishes to go back to a younger troop to work with younger boys would do just fine and through careful guidance make a terrific TG/PL eventually. If he has the desire, the skills can all be learned, but if he has all the skills in the world and has no desire, he will be worthless as a DC. It all goes back to BSA's discussion of servant leadership. Attitude trumps skills every time.

 

Stosh

[Narraticong 15]

I can speak on this situation from a current, real world perspective. A year ago, having just created a new Scout Troop from a Webelos Den, I still had a very close relationship with the Pack. I had always wished we had Den Chiefs for our dens, but it just never happened. One of the first things I did was offer our Scouts as Den Chiefs to the Pack. The leadership jumped at the idea.

 

With less than three months experience and holding the lofty rank o "Scout", two of our boys became Den Chiefs. One took on a Wolf Den of 12 boys. The other a Webelos 1 Den of 4 boys. I met with both Den Leaders to review expectations. It was understood that the boys were there for a mutually rewarding experience. The Den would have an "older" boy to help out the leader. The Den Chief would gain valuable leadership experience. Both leaders understood that they were making an investment. That investment included a little hands on training with the Den Chief. Both boys quickly attended all day Den Chief training at University of Scouting.

 

Both boys are leaders in the troop, with one finishing his term as SPL. Both have just earned First Class. Both are being welcomed back to their Dens for a second year as Den Chief. The boy with the now Webelos 2 Den will likely have all of the boys crossing over to the troop in a few months. The boy with the now Bear Den will likely stay with them all the way through- he REALLY likes being a Den Chief.

 

So, it CAN work to have a brand new Scout become a Den Chief. The key is that the Troop Leadership and the Den Leader must have clear expectations and be willing to GROW a Den Chief. I think it may even be the best path.

 

By the time a boy reaches First Class, other leadership opportunities start to pop up and it may not be "cool" to work with Cubs. If he starts out as a Den Chief early in his Scouting career, he may like it and stick with it.

 

There are rarely one-size fits all answers to every situation. Think it through, talk it out and do what seems best. If it doesn't work out, Scouts is the place to fail without permanent consequences!

 

 

[ManyHats 10]

There was some politics involved and the SM wasn't hip on this scout, but was trumped. He started last year about half way through. At the time he had a younger brother as a Webelo.

CM has told him numerous times he is a BS and not a CS. If he is given a job, he does ok. Problem is CM feels he has 1 more boy to deal with instead of help from a DC. He's with a different den this year. Hopefully the DL will put him to work and he will mature.

[Lisabob 13]

"Maybe the thing do do is read him the lit where it says you have to be a first class."

 

The thing is, I'm not sure that the lit actually says this? I may be wrong but I believe all it says is that it is preferable to be 1st Cl, not that it is required. (But I understand the sentiment here.)

 

Boys of the age you're talking about sometimes mature a lot over a summer. Hopefully the new DL, the SM, and the boy can sit down and map out a concrete plan for how this will work this year, and it will all come to fruition. Include specific tasks that take place at every meeting (like, do an opening game) so that he has something concrete to focus on preparing for.

 

I'm not sure where the CM comes into this, as a den chief ought to be helping with a specific den - not under the CM's watch.

 

 

 

 

[ManyHats 10]

The DC has been asking the CM why he wasn't included in cub activities like the example I gave. The CC assigned which den he will be den chief to, but I'm not sure DL knows yet. Over the summer he was at a couple pack events but wasn't assigned a den. Hopefully when den meetings start and he is given specific responsibilities things will go better.

[John-in-KC 311]

Something isn't right in this Pack. If a CM requests Den Chiefs from a Troop on behalf of one or more DLs, the young man who steps up should be assigned forthwith. There is more than a little learning about each other that Den Chief and DL need to do. Summer would have been a great time for them to have taken Den Chief training together.

 

The Den Chief should have been used, even at a Pack level, in support of Day Camp, Webelos Camp, and/or Family Resident Camp.

 

At the Scout Camp EagleSon worked this summer, Den Chiefs got put to helping staff herd the cats in various program activities ... to help build their positions as youth leadership. In return, Den Chiefs were allowed to make a couple of the projects if they chose.

 

If Cubs are the fertile soil from which Boy Scouts grow, Den Chiefs are part of the fertile soil from which Camp Staffers grow!!

 

Now I understand why your young man is a little confused. I'm saddened that time has been lost and can never be recovered.

[theysawyoucomin' 10]

the comment Stosh made rings clear. Rank is not the sole measure of the boy and more than wealth being the measure of having class.

 

You do have to look at the spirit of the boy.

 

This boy is too young by your decription. Get him some training for DC and towards first class and let him grow.

[NeilLup 13]

Hello Narraticong:

 

"Both are being welcomed back to their Dens for a second year as Den Chief. "

 

Did both of your Den Chiefs qualify for the Den Chief Service Award?

[Narraticong 15]

Both of our Den Chiefs were proudly wearing their Den Chief Achievment Award cords at their Scoutmaster's Conference and Board of Review Tuesday night. They both earned First Class.

 

Neither of these boys are super-achievers, just "good Scouts". They are not afraid to take on challenges. At summer camp, one of our DC's (also the current SPL of our young troop) was the only 12 year old to complete mile swim.

 

As Scoutmaster, I have a hard time telling a boy "no" when he wants to try something. I may think he is going too far out on a limb, but he will never find that true sense of achievement if he stays in the safe zone. By letting the boys fail, the victories become sweeter.

 

In a sense of full disclosure...I'm proud to report that one of the boys is my own son (not the SPL / Mile Swimmer)!