Home school and publics in same pack

[OR Pioneer]

Greetings all --

 

I am a Commissioner serving a Pack of 47 Cubs which are about 50/50 home school and public school scouts. They have about one den of home schoolers and one of "publics" at each level. The home schoolers come from a wider geographic area.

 

The active committee and adult leaders have discussed some of the difficulties they are experiencing, and have decided to make a great effort to NOT split into two packs. These issues were minor. The home school dens all meet at on location so families can stay together which creates more or less a second pack meeting. The home school dens have tried to include others in activities but were not aware that they were doing them late on school nights which prevented much participation. Public school parents are seeing lots of advancement and belt loops etc from home school cubs and are a bit overwhelmed.

 

So, I would like the group to tell me about similar experiences both successful and not successful in having home schoolers and publics in the same pack. What issues arise? How did you handle them? How successful were you? Any advice?

 

 

Berk Moss

Assistant District Commissioner

Pioneer District

Cascade Pacific Council

Portland OR

[cubbingcarol]

This is only my $.02 but here goes (BTW I have no real experience with home schoolers so BEAR with me).

 

I would combine them if at all possible. The home schooled children need all the interactment they can get. It would be a great learning opportunity for all the boys and parents. The home schooled kids shouldn't have a problem changing their meeting times to meet with the public kids since they don't have the time restraints. Make sure all den leaders are aware of the various advancements and awards that are out there to be earned. Sometimes den leaders focus on the rank and don't know about all the special stuff.

 

Again this is JMHO,

Carol

[StormingBuffalo]

I must agree with Carol. While I understand the convenience factor to meet near homes for those who are home schooled, I view scouting as a means of helping young people interact positively with people from all kinds of backgrounds and interests. In some ways, having separate dens for home schooled versus public school kids seems to defeat this purpose. In effect, there seem to be two packs meeting already, in terms of where the boys are meeting and gathering for den meetings.

 

Again, just my opinion, though I think all the boys can benefit from a total immersion scouting experience, which could include boys from public schools, parochial schools and schools "around the kitchen table."

[FScouter]

HS or not, dens should meet independently at a time and place best suited for that den. HS or not, dens should be doing their own independent den programs, not "sharing" activities. Meeting together and sharing activities erodes the concept of a den of 6-8 boys doing activities appropriate for their age, skill level, and advancement needs. A shared activity would be a pack outing in which the entire pack would participate, not just the HS dens.

[CaveEagle]

Both my boys are home schooled and are currently in scouts. (one 14 year old scout and a 7 yr old wolf cub) This is a very interesting situation.

 

How did the Dens get set up in a segregated structure?

 

I don't get why the home school dens are laging behind in the advancement category. My previous troop in NY had about 1/3 scouts that were home schooled. Most of these boys were very active, and great to work with.

 

It is generally true that home schooling offers greater flexibility for activities. Just don't make the mistake of thinking that they should just conform to the 'public school'schedule just because they don't "go to school" every day. Most of the HSers I have met are extreemely active with all sorts of activities. Many have co-ops that meet regularly to teach advanced classes.

 

I have seen quite a bit of bias towards home schooled kids. One of my old co-ASMs was openly critical of the whole concept. I finally enlightened him that my kids were in this category, and that I thought he was out of line. I get a little sick of hearing the "what about the socialization" comment. This is almost always the first this that I hear when my kids schooling comes up. ('sorry for the rant)

 

I would bet that you could find a way for this pack to stay together. Talk with all the Den Leaders and try to understand everyones needs.

 

'just my 2 cents......

 

CE

[Cubmaster Jerry]

I have the same question as CaveEagle. How did the segregation come about in the first place? My experience with HS boys is not as extent as yours but when we had some in our Pack, no one even really knew because it wasn't a big deal. And why should they? While you may meet at school and most of your boys may be in PS, the activities of scouting don't revolve around whether or not the boys are in the same school, home school, different school districts, or whatever.

[mbscoutmom]

I was trying to start a separate den for homeschooled Tigers in my pack this year, but it didn't work out--they chose a different pack because of the meeting time. What I told the parents who were thinking about joining this homeschooler's den is that they would have their own separate den meetings and activities, but would join the rest of the pack for pack meetings and events. I think this one of the areas where your pack needs to improve. ALL the leaders need to get together and plan activities for the whole pack. They should not be having separate pack meetings and activities that include more than one den. The way they're doing it is almost like two separate packs. This also leads to jealousy between the two groups. It doesn't need to be that way. The dens should be separate, but the pack as a whole should be working together for the same goals.

[packsaddle]

Just a note: In this area home-schoolers seem to stay away from scouting. Not sure why, maybe they have their own club activity or something. This unit (pack and troop) has never had a home-schooled boy and neither have the other local troops as far as I can tell. Interesting, I never thought about it before now.

[kittle]

Speaking from a homeschooler's point of view, I enjoy my son being around the other boys (most of the time). I don't have any advice on how to keep the Pack from seperating. I jsut wanted to say that the homeschool boys are more apt to earn more advancements. If the parents know what all the extra awards and requirements are, they also know what the boys have done 'at school. With public school boys, the parents/den leader don't always know what they have done and therefore don't know what extras to award. It will also be the nature of the homeschooler to make everything as much of a family activity as possible.

 

I also agree with CaveEagle, don't assume that the homeschooler's schedule conforms to the same times at public schools. They have their own scheduling conficts and shouldn't have to conform to the schedule of the other anymore than the others should conform to the homeschoolers schedule.

 

CubbinCarol,

 

These Scouts are getting interactment. It gets really old hearing that homeschool kids need interactment (socialization). Most homeschooled children get as much or more them public school kids. Alot are in homeschool support groups, summer ball teams, other youth teams if you live in an aread where these are available, church, and other activities. Homeschool kids just aren't in the classroom sitting everyday.

[Scoutndad]

I agree with the overall tone of the responses...stop the segregation.

My Webe II's consist of one home-school/special needs, 4 public school and 4 parochial school boys. IMHO regardless if the boys are home schooled, public school or parochial, if you segregate them (not due to Den size), you will ultimately end up with achievement rate difference that will be perceived as unfair or unjust regardless of who is in the group.

If the Den sizes are a contributing factor, then maybe the Den's should mix it up - the boys can get used to this idea since they will need to make the same decision about which path to follow when they sign up for Boy Scouts.

 

[OR Pioneer]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies.

 

A little more information. I don't know how I transmitted the idea that the home schoolers are slow in advancement. The reverse is the case -- they are earning lots of awards of many types. Sorry if I confused anyone.

 

I don't know how the dens became separate, I've just been assigned this Pack and am learning as I go. They seem to stay separate because home school dens all meet at one time in one place and have an opening, breakouts to dens and closing. Home school parents with boys in more than one den like this arrangement.

 

Interestingly, the home school multi den meeting does not take place mid day, but in the evening. In fact it runs later than the "publics" are comfortable having their kids out on school nights.

 

The advice I've given so far is that if they are running two programs, they should consider two packs and make the change now while people can shake hands and smile and wish each other well. If they don't want to be two packs (and they seem not to want that now) then they should make efforts to integrate programs. For example -- they have two mixed Bear-Webelos dens, on for home schoolers and one for "publics." They have two membership chairmen and I haven't surfaced all the structure of the pack, yet.

 

More thoughts? Advice? Can you point out any land mines before I step on them?

 

Berk

 

PS. THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO THE PARENTS IN THIS PACK OR THE DEDICATED HOME SCHOOL SCOUTERS ON THE LIST, but in my 37 years in public education, I noticed that most home school kids when reentering public high school are very well prepared. But, for a sad significant number "home school" equaled "no school." This only reinforced my admiration of the home school parents that had the time, dedication, resources, organization, and persistence to see that their children were taught at home. My heart and prayers go out to those children who are removed from school and then do not get an adequate preparation for life some other way.

[FScouter]

"Home school parents with boys in more than one den like this arrangement."

 

That matter of convenience for parents applies equally to PS families. But Cub Scouts is not designed to work with all dens meeting at the same time at the same location. What may be convenient for parents is detrimental to the program. Why do the PS families not meet all together in one location for the convenience of parents with boys in more than one den?

 

If these HS dens are doing a pseudo pack meeting every week, do they come to the real pack meeting? The monthly pack meeting led by the Cubmaster, where all the dens come together, with each individual den having a part in the meeting program?

[OR Pioneer]

FScouter asked, "If these HS dens are doing a pseudo pack meeting every week, do they come to the real pack meeting? The monthly pack meeting led by the Cubmaster, where all the dens come together, with each individual den having a part in the meeting program? "

 

Yes, they do come to the Pack meeting, in fact one of the strongest HS parents is the Cubmaster who runs a well organized pack meeting.

 

It almost seems to me that we have two pack meetings a month for these dens.

 

Berk

[packsaddle]

OR Pioneer, I noticed your PS and had to comment. The application of evolutionary principles suggests that selection must affect the selected individuals prior to reproduction - in this case, the children. On the assumption that the poorly prepared children will suffer diminished reproductive success, then social Darwinism is working very effectively and in time will gradually eliminate that portion of the gene pool. It IS the way the free market works on human populations and effectively at that.

[SemperParatus]

The CM is one of the homeschoolers...I would just ask him straight-up why there is a need for a second pack meeting each month that is primarily for the HS crowd, and how that could not possibly cause concern for the non-HS group. I would strongly suggest to him that that quasi-pack meeting be cancelled immediately if he is serious about trying to keep this pack from splitting up. To me, that is the first step that needs to be taken.