Do Den Chiefs.....

[msnowman]

have to be DC for only Webelos dens? I'm with the Pack and two of the younger boys in the Troop have expressed an interest in being DC. Now both of these boys are way too close in age to our Webelos II's (we have no Webelos I's). One would like to be a DC for our Wolves (all two of them) and stay with them thru to bridging over...you know, build a relationship, etc. The other would be happy to be a DC for the Tigers, and do the same thing.

 

and just to be clear - They have talked to me about it because one is my own Scout and the other is his friend (and frequent visitor to our home and these things have come up there frequently). Their SM has been.....slow to respond....to requests for direction in receiving DC training, so they are frustrated with that route. As the Pack CM I just want to be sure we have a place for them before sending them back to their SM.

 

Thanks for you input

Michelle - P102

 

[Trevorum]

Ideally, every den should have a Den Chief!

 

While possible, I think it would be unusual for one fellow to be a Den Chief for the same group of Cubs for several years. The scout would probably also want to experience leadership of his peers as a PL, ASPL, SPL etc., and as we all know (wink) wearing more than one hat in scouting can be tough.

 

Where I am, we encourage boys to reach 1st Class before becoming Den Chiefs.

[msnowman]

Agreed Trevorum in regards to the 1st Class thing. Since I know both boys outside of Scouts, I told them I wouldn't want them as DC's until they were 1st Class since that is about a year out of the Pack. That gives them time to be Boy Scouts, and some time away from the Cub Scouts...a lot of maturity can happen in that year.

[cubmaster3947]

In the past, I have had both Scoutmasters and Committee Chairs tell me that Den Chiefs can only be in Webelos Dens, but it just ain't true! (For reference, page 23-13 of the Cub Scout Leader Book distinguishes between two types of DCs...the Cub Scout DC, and the Webelos DC.)

 

Best thing I ever did as a Cubmaster was to line up Den Chiefs. Get a good, responsible DC & that Den will really come alive.

 

Good luck!

Mark Powell

Cubmaster - Pack 3947

Doha, Qatar

[mdutch]

Though I don't remember where I read this, I am almost positive that Tiger Den's can not have den chiefs. Bear and Wolf dens, however, can.

[jafyfe-bsa]

{Though I don't remember where I read this, I am almost positive that Tiger Den's can not have den chiefs. Bear and Wolf dens, however, can.}

 

Tiger Cubs don't usually have DC because they have their adult partners. As to Wolfs, Bears, and Webelos, I was a DC for all of them when I was a First Class and above scout. DC are necessary to teach the boys that there is fun in scouting beyond Cub Scouts. I believe that a must be at least 13 years old or First Class scout; however if there are no such requirements, those would be my requirements.

 

[ScoutNut]

Like Trev said, every Den can & should have a Den Chief.

 

Many Troops restrict Den Chiefs to 1st Class & above because it is a Position of Responsibility, but that does not mean that you can not be a Den Chief if you are younger.

 

My son likes helping with Scouts & working with younger boys. When he was a 4th grade Webelos the Pack was losing Tigers because none of the parents would be leaders. I was his Webelos DL, but had plenty of help, so I volunteered to take on the Tigers too. Thru his 4th & 5th year he would come along with me to Tiger meetings to help with games & such. When he was in 6th grade & in the BS Troop, I asked him if he wanted to take Den Chief training & make his affiliation with the Pack official.

 

He approached his SM & got a VERY lukewarm reception. His SM mentioned the upcoming Den Chief training in passing, but got no other takers. My son pressed the issue & told his SM he was taking the training anyway. Faced with a done deal, his SM reluctantly OK'd his becoming a Den Chief.

 

That first year, while he continued to help me with my Tigers, he also took on the 4th grade Webelos Den. The Webelos Den was not a good fit for him because, like your scouts, he was to close in age to them. The leader also treated him like an older Webelos & not like a part of the leadership team.

 

By the end of his 6th grade year he had decided to concentrate his efforts solely on my Tigers, who he had gotten to know quite well. At Pack Graduation, when we introduced the brand new Wolf leaders, we also introduced their Den Chief.

 

Although he continued(s) to help me with Tigers off & on, he took "his" Den all the way through, and in Feb '05 he crossed them all over into his Boy Scout Troop.

 

Along the way he tried to get some of his buddies interested in being a Den Chief. He got 2 to do it for a year, but neither one was very interested or very good. Then he recruited the brother of one of the guys who had not liked being a Den Chief. Just like my guy, he started in 6th grade and has been working with the same den for 2 years now. Unfortunately, the SM is still not very fond of Den Chiefs & neither recognizes them or promotes the program.

 

Get your guys trained & get them in younger Dens that can really use the help. Even though they are to young to use the leadership as a POR, it is a GREAT learning experience for them.

 

Good luck!

 

[bbng]

Den chief is an excellent opportunity for the Scout and for the Cubs. There are pros and cons, though mostly pros. I've not met many SMs who are in support of den chiefs, though I honestly do not know why. Those who are in support of them, though, are very much so in support of them, and they have troops with the most trained and active den chiefs. Let me get some negatives out of the way first: if a leader does not want help, the Scout will not have a good experience (not all den leaders want help). If a Scout is still close in age to the Cubs and knows them, that could be a negative, but don't underestimate a Scout according to age or rank. Also, some parents and even den leaders end up asking or telling the den chief to handle discipline issues; that is NOT the place of a den chief. He is there to help the den leaders, not to take the place of an adult. Now, for the positives. When a Scout has the chance to serve as den chief, even young and not yet First Class, he has the opportunity to grow in confidence. He will be challenged, but he will be looked up to as well, and the Cubs just love having the older boys to look up to. He may want to "play" too, which is fine, but he must be encouraged to be a leader, and with encouragement, a boy who has even a little desire to do this will end up a wonderful asset. He will help the boys to be more excited about Boy Scouts, he will lighten the load the den leader carries, he will add the fun that only another a youth can add, he will have a fresh perspective and can do what the den leader can't--make Boy Scouting come alive to the Cubs. No matter how a good a den leader is, the Boy Scout is actually living out the scouting experience now, so who better to pass it on? My experience has been an interesting one. I have worked with some den chiefs and come to know them. Some are very motivated to advance; most that I know though are simply looking for ways to serve and this is the place they have found works best for them. Den chiefs are good for packs; if you have an opportunity to have one or more, encourage and support them, know how to use them, and GO FOR IT.

[htc1992eaglescout47553]

Upon request, any den (Tiger, Wolf, Bear, or Webelos) can have a Den Chief.

[msnowman]

Thank you all for your extremely helpful responses. The two den leaders in question are very open to the idea of having a den chief, so they aren't the issue. We've been trying to get den chiefs for the last 3 years, with no luck from the Troop, so we have pretty much "grown our own". I'll send them back to the SM prepared with training date (out of district, but accessible to us). Do they need his blessing/permission or can they take the training anyway?

 

Michelle - P102

[VAordeal]

Having served as a Den Chief of a group of kids for the past two years i can say that it is one of Scouting's best features. I am now troop guide for this same group, who have recently become boy scouts. If the kids who are interested in becoming den chiefs then i dont se why the SM should object. I dont know if they need their SM's approval to go through the training but letting him know would be smart because when the den chiefs-2-be advance a rank and use it for leadership then the SM wouldnt be confused. In fact i'm not sure he training is even mandatory but what would i know, i'm just a kid! Becoming a den chief though, is a great opportunity for the scout and the cub scout den.

[bbng]

Michelle, try making a call to the training chair in your district. Let him/her know that your pack would like to have some den chiefs and that you also know of boys who would like the training. One thing that I learned about this area is that courses tend to have low turnout. However, if one or more people at the unit level begin to ask for this, that is when a training that might otherwise not be held can be put together. If not the training, the interest at least is made known.

(This message has been edited by bbng)

[mdutch]

Den Chiefs do not need their SM's permission to take training, unless your council/district has decided to create a rule to that effect. They do, however, need to have their SM's approval to become a DC, although I can't imagine a SM outright refusing to let someone be a den chief (unless he felt they weren't quialified). Den Chiefs do not NEED to be trained, but it is highly recomended.

 

[htc1992eaglescout47553]

Back in the day, I was a Webelos Den Chief. I mainly used that position to satisfy one of the requirements for the rank of Eagle. I was supposed to be a Den Chief for 6 months. That did not happen. I was a Den Chief for 2 years, and those two years was fun and enjoyable.

[kittle]

My son has been the unofficial Den Chief ever since he crossed over. I chose to stay on as the Webelos leader, so he went to meetings with me. He helped with all of the dens, just whooever needed him that night was where he went. Our Pack had 10 boys total in it and all dens meet on the same night in the same building.

 

I told his SM that he was helping and she said that he should get the patch and put it on his uniform. I didn't even think about training.(This message has been edited by kittle)