MAD ABOUT THIS PINEWOOD DERBY

[new-cb-mom]

LET ME START BY VENTING MY ANGER THAT WHY IS IT THAT THE DADS OR MOMS BUILD THESE CARS AND TRY TO SAY THAT HIS OR HER SON BUILT IT ALL BY THEIRSELVES. MY SON WAS DEVESTATED WHEN WE TURNED OUR CAR IF FOR WEIGHT IN AS HE LOOKED AT THE CARS. HE BUILT HIS ALL HIMSELF NO HELP FROM ANYONE. I KNOW HE SHOULD FEEL PRIDE THAT HE DID IT ALL HIMSELF AND KNOWING THAT SHOULD HELP HIM. BUT IT DOESNT WHEN HE LOSES BOTH HIS RACES IN THE STUPID DOUBLE ELIMINATION. OUR WINNERS FROM THE PACK WERE ALL TIGER CUBS AND LET ME TELL YOU THEY DIDNT EVEN PAINT THEIR CARS MUCH LESS TAKE A SAW TO THEM. BUT NO ONE SEEMS TO CARE. IS IT ONLY ME THAT GETS UPSET WITH THIS. I THOUGHT LAST YEAR WHEN HE WAS IN A DIFFERENT PACK THEY HAD THE RIGHT IDEA WE THE PARENT CHOOSED TO EITHER HAVE THE GUTTER BOAT RACES OR THE BOYS HAD TO BUILD THEIR CARS WITH THE PACK ON 6 WEEKENDS. AND THE CARS STAYED WITH THE PACK AND WAS NOT TAKEN HOME. WE DECIDED TO GO WITH THE BOATS. THE KIDS LOVED IT THEY HAD A BETTER CHANCE WITH WINNING SINCE EACH BOY IN THE DEN RACED ALL THE BOYS IN THAT DEN AND THEN THE TOP BOY FROM EACH DEN RACED AGAINST EACH OTHER. THEY HAD A BLAST SINCE THEY GOT TO RACE SO MUCH.

[EagleInKY]

Hi Newbie. I feel your pain. But, there's no need to shout. I really do understand where you're coming from. Your son will grow more through these experiences by you working with him through them than the boys whose parents build the cars for them. Take your time to be patient with him and help him deal with the frustration.

 

Every year, I see a significant number of cars that were obviously built by dad. When I was CM, I jokedly refered to the "Best Design" Award as the "Most Likely Built By Dad" Award.

 

Here's some suggestions -

- Get your pack to move away from double-elimination. This is hard to break because there are nay-sayers who will take you that the other methods take too long. They are wrong. Our rotation method is faster than double elimination ever was.

 

- Get you pack to sponsor workshops to help boys build their cars. Find one of these crafsman dads who have the equipment and skills to put it on. Obviously, some of them do have the skills.

 

- Relax, have fun, and remember that this is just one event. Scouting is much more than that. We've all had frustrating moments. Believe me, I give you tons of personal examples. But, in the end, your son will be blessed by the time you and he spend together in Scouting.

[SemperParatus]

I am sure in a few weeks your son will look with great pride at that car he built with his own two hands sitting next to his bed. Much more so then the poor scout who still can't touch the winning car that has now been encased in glass and tucked neatly away in his father's den.

 

Your son is learning very valuable lessons for living...life is not fair and winning is not always the goal. While it may be difficult to see that now, it will become clear as a bell ten years from now as he begins to make adult decisions. Remind him of how proud you are of his accomplishment and teach him that the real reason for the PWD is in the imagining and building (which takes hours) and not in the racing (which takes only seconds).

 

Please be careful about showing your anger over the race results in front of your son. Don't talk the others down to build him up. Teach and model good sportsmanship (in spite of the seemingly unfair results). By focusing negative attention on the results, you may inadvertently be sending signals that it really is all about the competition and winning.

 

 

 

[CA_Scouter]

Our supporting cub pack deals with this by having an adult division as part of their Pinewood Derby. Its open to all dads, moms, grandparents, older siblings, etc., and has helped to reduce these types of situations.

 

You might temper your anger though, in the knowledge that everyone usually knows who has built the car for their son, so the prize is, in reality, an empty one. And unfortunately, as the son grows older, he'll know its a worthless prize also.

 

Lesson learned, eh?

 

[kenk]

While I certainly agree that some parents are clearly too involved in the building of the cars, I do think parents need to be very involved, especially for a Tiger Cub, and the involvement should wain as the boys age.

 

When my son was a Tiger Cub, we built the car together with him doing as much as he could possibly do. He did the design on paper, with some slight suggestions from me (usually when just too complicated for him to do).

 

When it came to tranferring the design to the wood block, I held the paper on the block and instructed him to trace the design.

 

When it came to cutting, that too was a joint project. He did most of the cutting, but I helped guide the saw and made sure his hands were clear. Yeah, it came out a bit crooked, but not bad.

 

My son did most of the sanding, though I did sand some of the end-grain areas that he ignored.

 

When it came time to painting, well, I'll admit, I did most of that. He picked out the colors and told me where they should go, but since it is well below zero here in January, we needed to paint inside the house. I just can't risk damage to carpeting and furniture, so I did the actual spraying inside a box.

 

We did some filing/sanding of the axles. Since this involves use of a power tool (Dremel), I didn't want my son holding and controlling the tool itself. I did the filing. He was there holding the sandpaper strips.

 

Finally came the wheel assembly. I was told we could just push the nails into the block with our fingers. My son tried but couldn't do it. I tried too, and managed to get them pushed in. The first year I superglued them. The second year I let him superglue them - he got glue on the wheels. What a mess. This meant getting another nail & wheel from the derby chair and lots of work disassembling and repairing. Since then, I applied superglue to the nails to secure them. This year I used the gel-type of glue. That worked well.

 

My point is that it was a joint project between us with both of us learning how to do it. My son has Aspergers Syndrome, which requires me to guide and help more than most boys his age, but as he's gotten older, the designs have changed each year, and he's done more each year, but even though he was a Webelos 1 this year, he still needed my help and I still did the spray painting.

 

Another thing. In his Tiger Cub year he was in tears when he didn't win (much due to Aspergers). Now I REALLY try to emphasize good sportsmanship and de-emphasize the issue of winning. I told my son that if he was a good loser AND a good winner, that I'd take him out for pizza. I'm happy to say that worked very well. The second year he was actually kind of worried when his car won ("Can I still have pizza?"). We explained that it was even more important to be a good winner. Four years later, he actually roots for his den-mates much more than himself. He is quite a kid.

 

Its not the car. Its not the winning. Its the learning and the fun.

 

By the way, our Pack does have a "no rules" race that parents and siblings can participate in. No awards are given for that race. Each car is run on each of four lanes and we use the average time to score. We've also created enough goofy design-based awards that we make sure every Scout goes home with at least a medal of some kind. Again - its the fun.

[cajuncody]

I feel your pain! I have to say that atleast the boys show up for the race.

As for my son, He is a wolf. My hubby lets him design the car and transfer it to graph paper. he then lets him cut it out and trace it onto the block of wood. My husband holds the saw and guides it and my son pulls the trigger. My husband uses the drumel tool for cutting and my son uses it for sanding. My son hand sands and paints his car. He puts about 8 coats of paint on with sanding between each and I must tell you it is pretty close to a "show room" finish. He puts alot of work into it.

Kristi

[Laurie]

Apparently, a few years back, it was discovered that many boys wouldn't have cars completed because they had no help at home. The practice of distributing a car to each boy in December, then holding a "Make-It Night" in January, then the race in February was begun. There is a lot of notice given of when the make-it night will be held. There are several adults present who are handy with tools, and every boy is given the opportunity to have his car cut on the table saw (must be an adult doing this), use other tools (some that are safer for the boys with adult supervision), and then spray paint them. Since the painting often needs to be done indoors, and since our CO would not take kindly to multi-colored floors, adults help with this too--usually by spraying the car the color the boys wants where he wants it. So, by the end of this night, each boy may have his car cut out and his car coated in at least one color spray paint. If a boy is absent and the need for a cutout is brought to my husband's attention, he is willing to cut out cars after the make-it night. Help is also provided for weights, axles, etc. The idea of this night is to eliminate all obstacles, and the bonus is that the adults supervising get lots of time to play with--I mean work with -- the power tools. This has worked very well for years, and there have been no complaints about how a car looks or who might have made it because every boy has the same opportunities. Siblings as well.

 

A little off topic, but a fun thing happened this year. Last year I made a car, just for the fun of it. I had no intention of racing it, and it wasn't in the least Cub Scout-ish or boyish; it was a whittled flower painted pink, yellow, and green. Our daughter did race it, but it didn't get considered for any awards since I made it, not a child. After the race, the boys and the dads were checking this car out. Most hadn't thought of whittling or carving it; the table saw being used had become a practice that had most relying on it rather than hand tools. This year, I had to laugh to myself; a few cars had some amount of whittling. Also, many more were truly creative, not just cars, but hotdogs and tanks and some things that I can't really identify on wheels. I'd encourage the adults to have a little fun with this too, for you never know how this might encourage the boys to try out something new. Oh, and this year, at age 3, our daughter did have a car--another flower, thought this one included a flower pot and was her design and colored with crayon. The comments about the crayon were interesting, and I wonder if next year we might see a car or two with something other than spray paint coloring it.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I built my first car as a Den Chief. I got beat. I built my second car as a Den Leader and I got beat. I built my third car as an Assistant CM and I got beat. I built my fourth car as a UC and I still got beat. I don't mean "just" beat but soundly beat every single time. I asked about the secrets and tried them but nothing worked. I am not sure what I am doing wrong but I have that inborn ability to get soundly trounced at every PWD. The youngest Scout and the oldest Dad seem to have it over me no matter what I do.

 

I design each car with a theme and then I cut and whittle, sand and paint, so I have developed a fair talent for whittling. I got pretty good at it and I have been making my own neckerchief slides now for several years. I am presently planning on making a small PWD slide to commerate the "worst in class". I tend to wear it well. But next year, just maybe...

 

What I have learned:

I know that throwing the car together at the last minute doesn't work. I know that paint must dry for at least 24 hours. I know that weight and weight distribution is important. I know that balance is a good thing. I know that gluing the wheels is essential. I know that figuring it all out afterwards won't work unless you write it down. I also know that some people have an ability that I lack and may never have but thats what makes the world a great place.

 

I don't have an answer to the problem of cheating. It doesn't bode well for the Motto or the Promise or any of the Ideals of Scouting. It is definitely a chance to learn the difference between right and wrong. It is a chance to understand that some will do anything to get ahead. It is good insight into the world around us. It is also an opportunity to learn about our own self and what we believe and what our abilities are. It is in those moments of defeat that gives us pause to get to know ourselves.

 

Some that win may really have ability and we need to understand and appreciate it. There are those that cheat and win and we need to understand what that is all about. We need to know that lesson especially well. We will have plenty of time an opportunities to make decisions that are based on that very thing in our lives. What will we do when nobody is looking? How will we act and react when somebody does cheat? It is important. The Ideals of Scouting are at our doorstep at such times.

FB

 

[new-cb-mom]

Thanks for all the replies. It would be different if i didnt KNOW that the 90% of the other dads built the car. You hear them talking to themselves about how they built it. I know my son is learning a lesson about right and wrong and that he will know in future years that he worked hard on his car. But is it right for me to have to listen to a child who has emotional problems cry for 2days now that he will never build anything else. He is a boy who loves toi use a dremel and a cordless screwgun, to sand and screw pieces of scrap wood together. I hear all you points and i thank you. Does anyone think that making it a mandatory build with the pack event would be good? I know he will grow out of cring about this and about not wanting to build and tinker anymore.

[EagleBeaver]

If your son would like to see a couple cars that never won a race but were a ton of fun to make and race, here are some pictures. My sons and I have a tradition of trying for the 'most original' award because everyone notices a cool, strange, or weird looking car, but not the fastest one. I make my own car right along with them and its more fun than stressing about competing against 'dad-builts'.

 

Wolf - all 3 of us made cars that looked like granite rocks by covering the car with spray foam and then granite spray paint. http://www.hotspotsporting.com/kautz/CubScouts/Pinewood/CarsWolf.jpg

 

Bear - a Snickers bar wrapper glued around the block of wood - http://www.hotspotsporting.com/kautz/CubScouts/pinewood2003/cars_bear.jpg

I made my own Hogwart's Express with a working light and red smoke coming out the stack - http://www.hotspotsporting.com/kautz/CubScouts/pinewood2003/hogwarts.jpg

 

Webelos - a railroad car full of logs - http://www.hotspotsporting.com/kautz/CubScouts/pinewood2004/carsjrwebelos.jpg

 

Paul

[OldGreyEagle]

I always thought an interesting part of a PWD would be after its all over and the awards are about to be given that the cub whose car won at each level would give a brief explanation on how it was built, what he did, what dad did and how it was designed to go fast. Even if all it did was cause the dad to coach the son what to say, at least some father-son interaction would have taken place.

[starwolfmom]

My son, who is a Bear this year, made most of his own car, with just a little help from dad with the power tools.

 

When we got to the race, we saw lots of really spiffy looking cars--almost professional, really. But Greg's car got a lot of attention from the adults. "Did you make this?" "Are these the weights?" "Wow, that's some car." It was chunky and clunky compared to some of the other cars, painted in our school colors, and he loved it.

 

The car lost all of its races--by a large margin. Then came the "special" awards. Most Original, Best Paint Job, and "Judge's Choice." My son was the winner of this last award. He was elated! After the event, I went up to one of the leaders and asked, "What does Judge's Choice mean?" He replied, "It's the car that actually looks like a kid built it and not the dad."

 

I think that's the best prize of all.

 

Elizabeth

[packsaddle]

This one tugs at my strings. Back when I was cubmaster, perhaps 50% of the boys had single mom families. And there was no way to prevent the few dads from taking the lead if they wanted to for their sons. So I began 'tune up' sessions for the couple of weekends or nights during weeks before the pack derby. All the boys were invited and the dads were invited to bring tools (and here's the important part) IF they were willing to freely share the tools. Of course, I brought mine. I think these 'outings' were more fun than the derby. The last tune-up session would be held with the track assembled so they could take turns racing and optimizing. Each boy had about 12 dads helping them and many of the single moms seemed relieved. I sure enjoyed the cubs.

 

As for the actual race, we did the double-elimination thing but if I had it to do again I would consider an alternative.

[pack524cm]

I understand where your coming from. I've been involved in Cub Scouts for over 9 years with two sons and I'm currently the Cubmaster for over 98 boys in our Pack in MN. We have had to make changes over the years as we have had several boys get upset for the same reasons you've stated. Thus we have the following practice put in place. Two PWD workshops are planned four weeks before the PWD and yes the boys get to test the car before the races also. All the secrets are shared with all the scouts and parents on how to build the best PWD car. We have five advanced adults work with each of the boys cars during the PWD workshops to assist on any issue they have or we clearly show were to put the weight and wheels on correctly. We don't run a adult race any longer as were not having as many problems any longer. We have the scout and parent/guardian sign a form that states that they worked on the cars together and based on their age bracket the percentage of assistance given is smaller. Example Tigers 50 / 50, Webelos 2 90 / 10. We have been know to disqualify a car if there's obviously to much adult work on the car. They can still race but are held back so that don't win any of the races. Its been a while since that has happened because its clearly stated on our PWD rules that are signed on the form.

 

We have a six lane wooden track that is all computerized and each scout car has a unique number and the car runs at least three times or is eliminated by a scoring system. The last six cars at each level runs their cars six more times in each lane to declare a first through sixth place winners. Each scout gets a "Do Your Best Ribbon", PWD Patch, and the Best Paint Job, Best Design Job, and 1st - 6th award winnner are receive a trophy. Each race level takes about a 45 minutes to run and we start are races at 9AM and finish the last races at 2PM. We also have TV camera's on the track, so that boys can see races over on one of the three TV we have places in the cafeteria. We even get the Girl Scouts involved in selling hot dogs, snacks, juice, and soda. Were very fortunate to have a lot of dedicated parents to work with the boys and expecially the single mothers to make this a very enjoyable event.

[new-cb-mom]

WOW! I wish I could find a pack like alot of people talk about on here. the three packs I have been in are just about better to stop running then to run. My latest pack is just a joke. No one has a clue that this is all about the boys not them. And to make it fun for them to want to stay into til eagle scout.