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Parents At Den Meetings?


Eamonn

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I have noticed that more and more Dens are not meeting in the home of the Den Leader. I'm not sure of the reasons behind this. Could be that not all wives are as understanding as Her That Must Be Obeyed?

A lot of Dens in the District are now meeting in churches or schools. I liked having the meeting at my home because I didn't have too tote stuff and I didn't risk leaving something at home.

There also seems to be a trend of parents staying for the entire meeting.

Now please don't get me wrong.I like parents, I had two of my own and Her Who Must Be Obeyed tells me that I am one. But I never had parents at the Den meeting. For one thing there wasn't enough chairs!! I also seen the time that the little fellows spend at the Den meeting as our time. I got to know them and they got to know me.

Parents would have got in the way. I suppose looking at it now, this was a way of preparing for the day when they would go off to Boy Scouts But at that time I wasn't thinking about that. I think that having parents at the Den meeting would have cramped both my style and the style of the Den.

I do live a little bit out of town. Most of the parents were all pals and car pooled, in fact most of the time the ADL was the designated driver.A couple of the parents were on the Pack Committee and we did have a pack rule that Cub Scouts had to have a parent or family member with them at a pack meeting.

I think that the parents knew that if they started coming to Den Meetings, I would start working on them to do stuff.

I looked in on a Den meeting, which was being held in our parish church hall. The little guys must have chugged down a few really sweet espresso coffees before the meeting, they were a boisterous little band. The leaders seemed to have lost control. The parents were sitting not doing anything. In fact there were a couple of siblings in the band of boisterous Cub Scouts. I was meeting with the priest about something that had nothing to do with Scouting. We were both shocked. I am one of those people who really enjoys the noise that a happy group of kids make. But this was horrible, I didn't want to get involved. The priest looked at me, he knows that I'm the District Chair, Ex-Cubmaster. He has allowed us to use the school for training's. So I felt that I had to do something. So I stuck my arm in the air making the sign. The Den leaders followed, by now the Cubscouts and a couple of siblings were running on the tables. The Priest also made the sign, but he added "All Right!!" in a very commanding voice. The youngsters stopped and order was restored. The priest took over, telling everyone that they were guests. He was talking and a couple of parents started up a conversation between themselves. We went upstairs leaving the Den. They had left when we were done. I was unsure what to say, so I said nothing. We went for a drink and I said how sorry I was. He said that I was not to worry.

I called the Cubmaster when I got home. He said that the kids do better when the parents aren't there.

I know that if I was the Den Leader I would have to ask the parents and the siblings to stay home.

Eamonn.

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First of all, for a few years I did not have an assistant den leader so I had to have at least one parent stay (a husband and wife do not make two-deep leadership). Second, it was most disruptive when parents stayed, did not get involved and essentially socialized at the meeting with each other. My ground rules were that parents were more than welcome to stay but would be "on staff" if they stayed. If they did not wish to be "on staff" they were free to leave.

 

On the behavior side, some children behave much better when a parent are present, some much worse. I had one kid who I really like and his dad would attend the meetings and essentially play games on his cell phone the whole meeting. One meeting we were building tool boxes. I had precut all the lumber and drilled nail guide holes in all the pieces. We had about six hammers for eight boys (Bear den, i.e. third graders). Most of the boys had one on one adult supervision and the one boy asked for my assistance while I was helping another boy. I politely asked him to ask his father and the boy just laughed! Of course he was totally correct in expecting absolutely no help from dad. Sad but true.

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I think that the response here could fill a small encyclopedia.

 

First, I am glad that your had two parents! For a while I thought that there was some special thing that the queen did to turn out all those Englishman.

 

Yes, more meetings are occurring in schools and the like. I think its because more of the moms are working, and because the den size seems to be growing. Also when you throw the Tiger parent requirement into the mix, you now need a bigger space than most people have at home.

 

As for parents at the den meetings, we, BSA, is partially responsible for this trend. Its the Tiger parent thing again. The parents come and enjoy themselves. They like to watch the kids, especially the older parents! I cant say that the boys behavior changes when the parent is present, vs. when the parent is not present. They always seem to be the same to me. Parents today are more aware of where they leave there children. Many stay simply because they wont leave their kids anywhere.

 

I am very fortunate to have a great group of parents; they are always willing to help out in absolutely any manner. Some stay, and some leave. Not always the same ones. We share some of the planning chores, and shamelessly take advantage of each others professional experience, skills, and talents to make a better program for the boys.

 

As for the behavior that you witnessed, certainly it was unacceptable. If the den leader wasnt controlling the kids one of the parents should have. In my den when something happens behind my back, a parent always steps in. I only have 4 eyes. However, Eamonn, I dont know when it was that you were a den leader, but many people suggest that todays kids are less well behaved than the kids of 20 years ago. I would think that some of what you saw was this thought in action.

 

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Is it that kids are less well-behaved, or that adults are less interested in exerting control and discipline, lest some kid's self-esteem get bruised? Your basic 8 year old boy has changed little over the years...if allowed to run amuck, they will. If that energy is properly corralled and their hands kept busy with firm and consistent expectations, they will respond.

 

We had an entire Webelos den join our small Troop this year. The same phenomenon is happening...parents bring their sons and then pull up a chair and sit for 90 minutes around the edge of the room. It definitely changes the dynamics of the meeting, however we can't tell them they can't stay. One thing I did was sign them up as Committee Members, and we have BORs almost every week now. Another parent is doing duty as a MB counsellor.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

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I'm afraid the Tigers' structure has people looking for "non-homes" for Den Meetings, and then DLs and parents get used to the school (or whatever) setting, and ask why would I want this "messiness" in my home?

 

My Den meets in my home, and yes, SWMBO was very uncertain - especially for those couple of weeks when we were 16 Wolves! It took a week or two for the boys to figure out that the rules were different in my home than in the school cafeteria. It was particularly tough for the neighborhood guys who come over all the time to play with my son - they struggled with Cub meetings being different than playing with Jamie.

 

I think the home setting helps create a family feel - the beginnings of a brotherhood. Plus, with the garage and basement there are built-in places to get messy and do all the prep work, like pre-drilling, and using the power tools, so the Cubs are set up to do their parts.

 

Eamonn, I don't mean to force another thread's issues upon this one, but are some of youir concerns issues that could be (but presently doesn't seem to be) addressed in training?

 

jd

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A few years back I was with OJ, waiting for the Christmas photo with Santa. Before me in line were two very beautiful young Moms.

Both had blue jeans on that looked like they came out of a spray paint can, both were blond.As I stood in line,I thought that Santa would think I was OJ's Grand pap.

He is now 16 and I was a Den Leader when he was a little fellow in the blue uniform!!

Talk about making a poor white haired immigrant feel odd before his time!!

Eamonn

Born in 1955 (Very late in 1955!!)

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>Talk about making a poor white haired immigrant feel odd before his time!!

Eamonn <

 

I think it is never to early to feel ODD!

Seriously though, was it my den meeting? ;-) It could have been. All my parents stay and we all have a blast. They go on every outing too. We parents have as much fun as our cubs. I wouldnt change it for anything.

Kristi

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The parents in our den always stayed at den meetings. It was kind of nice. We met in our basement. We did a lot of crafts, so it helped t have the extra set of hands.

 

In Webelos, we moved locations, and it was less convenient for them to stay. However, most of them still did. We met in a garage, and during the cold weather, the parents stayed inside the warmth of the house.

 

When we became a troop. Many of the parents continue to stay. Although that has become fewer and fewer. They're always welcome, but definitely understand that the meeting belongs to the boys.

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I've had to start having meeting at the church that charters us. Last year we had the den meetings at my home, but this year my DSW, Dear Sweet Wife, is working graveyard shift (so we dont have to put our little one in daycare) and it would be imposable for her to sleep in the evenings with a bunch of second grades have a blast in the house (can't ask them to whisper, they would never listen to that foolishness).

 

As for the parents being at the meeting, it's all I ever knew. I pick up my nephew before each den meeting but al my other parents show up to all my meetings and to all our events.

 

We just got a new crop of Wolves that just joined from school night, and tonight is our first TRUE den meeting (why so late? thats a whole other story that starts with Hurricane Ivan). I think that these guys will stay because the Church is on the outs skirts of town. By the time the parents drop them off it and get back home it will be time to come pick them up.

 

One thing I notice, I am reluctant to discipline a kid (take his marble away) while his parent is there. I guess I think that they should be the one doing the correcting, and I don't want to play favorites with the boys so some time I believe I am harder on my son. He is not a bad kid but always loses his marble first (he is always going to his room to get something to show the other boys), but now that we are going to be meeting at the church he won't be able to do this.

 

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We only have 1 den (5th grade Webelos) which meets at the leaders home. All of our other dens meet in our parish school's Scout Room and hall. It is actually more convienient that way. We have a couple of large cabinets with all of our craft supplies and misc "stuff", we can use the hall for games, the stage to pratice skits and flag ceremonies, and we can go outdoors if we wish. Our Pack meetings are held in the school/parish hall.

 

As my son went thru Cubs we never had the parents stay unless one stayed for a particular reason. We had 3 leaders though. There was 1 den that had only 1 leader and she would usually have a parent stay and help.

 

Now, there is only 1 den (besides my Tigers) that asks that all of the parents stay and I don't think they get all of the parents at each meeting. The other dens all have 2-3 leaders and sometimes a Den Chief.

 

.

 

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This is my third year as den leader for my son's den. I started when they were wolfs. The first two years we met at the assistant den leader's home. This year we are meeting at the church hall. I think she got tired of cleaning up her home (both before and after the meeting :)). I think I liked having the meetings at the home more than the hall. Having them at the hall is much more convenient for most all of us though. The boys live in quite a large area, probably 20+ square miles. I live about 12 miles from the school/church. It's the closest Catholic school I can enroll my children in. The parish is the CO.

 

I've never had too much trouble keeping the boys under some manner of control. I can tell the difference when not all the boys are there, things seem easier. They especially did the first two years with nine in the den. Now there are seven and things do run more smoothly. I think six boys would be a great size for the den.

 

We never had parents stay at the den meetings before this year. Parents still usually don't stay. Maybe one will stay and keep off quietly to the side. I really don't want them to get involved at the meetings. On field trips and campouts is a different story. I really do want/require their help then.

 

I think boys will behave when they know that they should be behaving. They will also do what they think they can safely get away with. The boys in the den at your church obviously can behave, they did once the priest made his presence known. Priests seem to have quite a way with promoting good behavior.

 

SWScouter.

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My Webelos den meets at the elementary school that the boys attend. We use the gym. There are 17 boys in the den (Webelos 1 & 2 combined) and about 5 of the parents stay. When they stay, I put them to work! Our boys are split into 3 patrols within the den. Each parent that stays is assigned to help a patrol, but not the one with their son in it. This works well for us.

 

Cheryl O

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We (bear den) meet at the library for most functions. Occasional we will meet in my barn/workshop if we are making a craft that is not appropriate for a library. I like holding den meetings at the library meeting room its off a hall and isolated so that a little noise spill over wont disturb the readers. I like the library: 1) it makes a neutral environment for my son. 2) There are far fewer distractions such as toys, phone calls and TV in another room. 3) My parents stay so there would be little room for 20-24 people in my house every week. 4) the lighting is great and with 12 tables there is plenty of work space.

 

Eammon, that is a great topic on the value of having the parents present at den meetings. The good: Having the parents there has really helped for the families to bond (read boys too). I am pleased that the families all call each other for help or to take another kid along on a non scouting activity. The bad: if the kid struggles at all at the den, with a craft or tasks mom or dad is right there to help them. We were making the balsa wood rockets a couple of den meetings ago and about half the kids made their own. Most had different levels of help from mom or dad. One kid, actually a very talented kid wanted a super special rocket complete with a profile of a pilot. Well an eight year cant carve the silhouette of a pilot but dad can. So junior watched as his dad carved the space man in the cockpit.

 

 

(This message has been edited by Its Me)

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Poor training, too quick to answer, and a deep down desire to give an answer be it right wrong or indifferent.

 

Probably the CM misinterpreted or misunderstood the question, and the Tiger Mom didn't know any better.

 

The program does not require parents, other than Tiger parents, to stay at meetings. Your pack may for some reason, ask or even require parents to stay. But I think you would know if that were the case.

 

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