Webelos without AOL but after crossover

[Quixote]

i'm the asst cubmaster and we have our crossover scheduled for March - i think there are several boys who will not receive their AOL and from my reading, they won't be eligible to go into Boy Scouts until they finish 5th grade or turn 11 - what happens to them during the two months when the rest of the boys have crossed over (they will probably be at Webelos Woods as Scouts while their otherwise classmates will be there as Webelos?)

 

Thanks

[yarrow]

From what I understand unless the boys are 11, have finished 5th grade or have AOL they don't crossover. They remain Cubs until one of these requirements are met. There are still lots of activities they can do as WEBELOS (community service, family camping, bowling, pin work) Still I am sure there will be some resentment of the boys that crossover early with AOL. As Den Leader you still have a responsibility to make sure they are involved even if your kid crossed over early. Good luck.

[Bob White]

Yarrow is correct. The pack retains the boys memberships as Webelos for the rest of the school year, or their 11th birthday, or until they complete their Arrow of Light. Whichever happens first.

 

The best case scenario is for the Webelos Den Leaders to give full concentration to these scouts to get them to complete AOL and give them a proper send off into Boy Scouting. Nothing says that crossovers only happen once a year or only during Blue and Gold.

 

These boys are high risk for dropping out unless they are given immediate attention.

 

Bob

 

[Quixote]

That's what I thought.

[sctmom]

As a Webelos Den Leader I am also dealing with this. A lot of the parents seem to just see this as the end of scouting for their sons. As much as leaders focus on getting the boys to earn their Arrow of Light, there is only so much they can do. There are some things that parents have to help with (making sure the boy goes camping or visits a troop).

 

It concerns me greatly that a lot of boys are losing out at this time, especially those boys who just joined Cub Scouts in the 5th grade -- our pack had about 6 new 5th grade scouts this year. Some of them are not 11 years old, so they can't crossover until the summer.

 

[Quixote]

if you have that many, maybe you can make a provisional patrol within the pack just for those boys who are left after the normally scheduled crossover so the boys can continue in a group. I would think that it's better to group them together than to have several dens of 2-3 boys each.

 

After talking to some of the scouts last night, it looks like i probably will only have 2-3 total if that many that don't cross over next month.

[shemgren]

A boy can become a Boy Scout if he:

Is 10 an 1/2 and has earned the Arrow of Light.

Is 10 and 1/2 and has finished the 5th Grade.

Is 11 years old.

 

I agree that the boys should be kept busy in the Pack, until they a eligible to join the Troop.

 

The boys have paid for membership in the Pack until recharter time and they remain members until then.

[yarrow]

It is also possible, although I can't recommend it, to have a younger boy with the permission from council join Boy Scouts at 10+ without their AOL. We had one from the local troop do it. I thought is was a bad idea and discouraged the parents from doing it but you know they thought junior was soooo ahead of the curve, straight A's, extracurriculars, etc. They thought he would just be bored in Cubs and would be a drop out risk. Go figure.

[scoutdad]

We cross all of the boys at the same time. This way the new patrol can start out together selecting a name and yell. The AOL is the highest honor in cub scouting, but if the boys who haven't earned it are to remain in scouting and go to summer camp, they need to enter scouting in March. Many times the non-AOL boys are bored with activity pins but would love the outdoor skills of Boy Scouts. Our Council backs us on this. Our troop goes to summer camp two weeks after school is out. No kid is going to join one week, pay the fees, buy a uniform and cough up $140 and go to camp the next week. We are careful to wait until after school is out to sign off on any advancements for the non-Aol scouts.

 

Scoutdad

[evmori]

scoutdad,

 

"The AOL is the highest honor in cub scouting, but if the boys who haven't earned it are to remain in scouting and go to summer camp, they need to enter scouting in March."

 

I agree with the 1st part of this statement, but I don't know if the last part is true. We don't get our new Scouts from the Pack until May & have no trouble with them going to summer camp. The 2nd yr Webelos participate as 2nd yr Webelos until they offically cross over after they earn their AOL or meet the age requirement if they don't earn their AOL.

 

"We are careful to wait until after school is out to sign off on any advancements for the non-Aol scouts."

 

Why is this done? Wouldn't this be considered "holding back" a Webelo?

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[sctmom]

I think packs and troops need to work together to solve this problem. Out of 8 boys in my den, I had 4 that have summer birthdays. Two of those joined Cub Scouting in September of the 5th grade. Getting their AOL was not a priority and is a hard push for any kid. They just wanted to have some fun.

 

What does BSA think is supposed to happen with these kids? They really can't join a troop until late May / early June (depending on your school system). Sure they can attend troop meetings, but to follow the book they should not have things signed off. Also, why should they be treated the same as the kid who earned his AOL? Shouldn't that AOL give you a little "extra" clout?

 

Most den leaders aren't going to be willing to stick around for 2 or 3 boys waiting for the school year to end. Should they go be in the 1st year den? If you are following the recommended program they would be repeating things they did a year earlier.

 

This is soooo confusing to me.

[Bob White]

Sctmom and scoutdad,

 

I realize that not all units are the same, but the program elemnets are a constant. There problems with graduating Webelos all at once whether or not they have AOL. First off not all scouts advance at the same time sometimes due to missing a few meetings because illness or family conflicts. It is unfair to move them into scouts while thay still have eligibility in Cub Scouts without the chance to earn the awards their friends have earned. The other problem is that without the AOL, alot of these cubs are not eligible for scouts. They would be required to wait for the end of the 5th grade school year or their 11th birthday whichever came first.

 

As far as the the leaders not wanting to stay a few extra months till the end of the school year...let me be as delicate as I can here...TOUGH. They volunteered to help children grow not to serve time and bug out. They are still registered leaders of the den and they still have boys to serve. It needs to be explained to them at the start of Webelos,that their responsibility to these cubs does not end until they are all successfully crossed over, or the end of the 5th grade year.

 

Sctmom,

The Webelos advancement program differs largely from the Wolf and Bear in that the Webelos Den leader is largely responsible for approving advancement. The extended time period of 2 years for Webelos is to allow the Den Leader to schedule in the needed activities for acheiving AOL. This is usually accomplished in 18 months, allowing the cub to get his AOL and cross-over to scouting in February or March.

The weight of responsibility for reaching AOL is equally shared by the cub and the den leader. It's a partnership that everyone, including the parents, need to understand as soon as they join Webelos. A scout who attends weekly den meetings should, by the content of the meeting program, be able to reach his Webelos badge and AOL in time to cross-over on time.

 

The weekly planner in the Webelos Leader Handbook will help.

 

As far as the boys not wanting to push for AOL and just wanting to have fun. Don't all boys join scouting to have fun? Isn't it our responsibility as leaders to see that they have fun as they participate in an organized set of activities designed to advance them as they play?

 

Bob

 

 

 

 

[andrews]

Is the WDL compelled to provide a "program" for 1-3 remaing Weblos? I don't think so. All my den crossed over at the same time, but a den the year before had a few boys occasionally going to the leader's house to get things signed off.

 

I suspect the comment above about "waiting to sign things off until school was out" referred to signing of Boy Scout requirements, which they couldn't earn until they were truly Boy Scouts, not just "visiting" Webelos.

 

Brad

[sctmom]

Yes, each unit is different. Our pack has all den meetings on the same night each week, 2 weeks out of the month, 1 week is the pack meeting and 1 week off. That means 2 den meetings per month on a good month. If there are holidays, forget that. It's hard to change a pack that is set in it's ways. I also experienced parents throwing back they were told meetings were only 3 nights a month, their boys had school skate night on Monday nights.

 

Again, a key point is the parents have a responsibility. I have held lots of meetings where 1 or 2 boys out of 8 showed up. I have rearranged my schedule to have meetings to accomodate the "other" school's schedule. I had 3 boys that came as a group -- so all or none. I had one parent whine that a meeting was planned on HER birthday. Maybe I'm strange (aren't most Cub Leader's???) but I enjoyed spending my birthday with the boys.

 

Bottom line is all the adults should work together to help the boys get their AOL and / or continue in Cub Scouting until crossover to Boy Scouting. Parental attitude is SO KEY! The boys may be really excited about the program but can't drive themselves to meeting.

[Bob White]

Yes I believe a leader is compelled to serve the scouts in their den to the best of their ability. If that means staying on till the end of the den members ime in cubs, so be it.

 

I agree the parents have a responsibility to get the scouts to the meetings and have an interest in their advancement. I also see it (and I am not suggesting in any way that this was not done)to be the WDL responsibility to make the required time committment clear at the very beginning to the parent, and to keep the parent informed as to the scouts progress in order to insure the boy's success.

 

Had It been said early on that the den only met twice a month I would have expected some if not most the cubs to not get AOL. That is a very limited time frame to get all the work completed. Weekly meetings, excluding the pack meeting week would have given the boys another 15 meetings of program (about the same time the leader would have to spend after the February cross-over if their cubs weren't ready to go into scouts).

 

I guess I'm trying to say that we should do everything possible to get parent involvement, and that it rests largely on our attitude and communication early on with the families. If the scout isn't at the meetings there is little we can do. But if he is there, everything we do should be leading to his timely advancement. I would hope we can all agree on that.