USS Yorktown on The Endangered List (Possible Plans For Patriots Point Residential Development)

[ASM915]

For those units planning a future trip to the USS Yorktown,BEWARE!!!

 

On the 11:00PM Charleston news tonight, City Council is looking at the future of Patriots Point & the Naval Museum. I forget what their yearly income is from the museum, but the annual budget for the museum is $10 million. Council is looking into their options with the site.

 

The biggie: If they develop the site (prime waterfront property) with 200 homes, plus businesses,etc, they stand to make between $150-180 million. They would keep the museum, but much reduced in size. In other words, they would have to decide how many & which of the ships they would keep.

 

Looks like we might have to go to Norfolk in the near future.

[packsaddle]

The Yorktown is the crown jewel so don't worry about it. The others, however, I can't be sure of. What does scrap metal go for these days?

The Charleston city government is merely operating according to the forces of the market. As Rush Limbaugh says, "It's all about money". And these days the 'bald ego' seems to be correct about that, at least.

That said, they might make more money by turning over the entire operation to Disney and just take a cut plus taxes from the increased tax base...sort of like the US and South Dakota did with Mt. Rushmore.

[Eagle92]

Just came back from the YORKTOWN this weekend. It's nice and I enjoyed it, and my son thouroughly enjoyed it as he didn't want to leave Sunday. I hope that she isn't on the endangered list. But I do know how expensive naval museums are to keep up.

 

I know the destroyer isn't there any more, and it looks as if the yacht club is using their berth for boats. So that may be part that is lost. CLAMAGORE is small enough that they will probably keep her as they can use one pier for both the boat and the ship.

 

Don't know how far Baton Rouge, LA is from where you are, but the USS KIDD DD661 is down there and she is the most authentically restored ship in the international historic ships association. With the exception of 3 things (and I aint telling ) everything aboard his is WWII spec. She does have overnite camping, and they assign a tour guide to all groups. Standard tour is 45-50 minutes, BUT if you are on an overniter, you can have as long a tour as you want. Overniters and some special tours, usually reunions, get to go into areas that are closed during the regular tour.

 

Forgot to put in a disclaimer, I worked on the KIDD in grad school and that was my favorite job ever!

 

Forgot to add, those guides go through extensive training on the ship. They know a great deal of info on her and living aboard a ship in WWII. Trust me on that one (This message has been edited by eagle92)

[CalicoPenn]

"That said, they might make more money by turning over the entire operation to Disney and just take a cut plus taxes from the increased tax base...sort of like the US and South Dakota did with Mt. Rushmore."

 

I'm curious if the National Park Service, and the new Superintendent of the park, who starts on September 27, 2010, after working as Superintendent of the Herbert Hoover National Historic Site in Iowa, knows that Mt. Rushmore has been "privatized" and is under the management of Disney.

 

Now I wouldn't be surprosed if some eager beaver government type had suggested letting Disney take over management of one of the most recognized US National Monuments in the world, but I've not been able to find anything to suggest that it has actually happened.

 

I suspect, though, that what is being referenced is the public/private partnership with the Mount Rushmore Society's Mount Rushmore Preservation Fund that teamed the US Government with private contractors to create better facilities and trails for visitors to Mt. Rushmore - new and better trails, a new visitors center, a new parking garage, which cost $56 million and rather than being funded by tax dollars, is being funded by parking garage fees, food service and gift shop purchases run by private concessionaires rather than the United States.

 

Could that model work in Charleston? Maybe - if there is enough visitors on an annual basis to make it possible.

 

 

[moxieman]

"...knows that Mt. Rushmore has been "privatized" and is under the management of Disney."

 

He'll find-out soon enough when they reveal the new fifth head of a certain mouse with large round ears.

[ASM915]

Moxie,

Nah. They'll just have Teddy & the gang sporting newly carved Mousekateer hats come next spring.

 

Maybe Patriots Point could talk with the QE2 group, and discuss changing the museum over to a resort like they have, or small sleep rooms for $100a night like they have in Japan.

[Twocubdad]

The Yorktown is only a fraction of Patriots Point, most of which is totally undeveloped. Part of the land is a golf course and softball fields. They're talking about developing the vacant land, not scrapping the Yorktown.

 

http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2010/sep/22/new-image-new-value/

[struax]

The biggest questions shoul dbe what is going to happen to the one and only palmetto fort in the US. it appears that this will be effected as well.........

[Pack212Scouter]

This could actually be a good thing if done properly. Think about it. If they developed part of the area, it could bring much needed income to keep Patriots Point operational.

[CalicoPenn]

Development around this a good thing? Doesn't anyone ever pay attention to local news?

 

If this area is developed with the fairly heavy residential component, within 10 years, the residents will begin complaining about all the traffic and noise generated by those visiting the USS Yorktown, and will be demanding that the village shut down the tourist operation.

 

One photo caption I saw is that this is state land. If so, why can't the rest of the taxpayers in the state demand that the State of Massachussetts turn Patriot's Point into a State Park and protect the area from development completely?

 

Just because millions can be made from the oceanfront property doesn't mean we have to accept that development is the highest and best possible use of the land.

[packsaddle]

Calico, just getting 'round to reading this again and saw your comment. It was a 'figuratively' speaking manner in which I wrote that. When I was a boy and saw Mt. Rushmore for the first time back in 1957, there was a small parking lot and a smaller building for a visitor center. More recently, about 50 years later, when I saw the fake Lincolns and other presidents walking around, the caricature artists, and the ice cream parlors, I thought: "What's the difference between this and a Disney park?"

It's a large statue that defiled a place that was sacred to native Americans in order to 'elevate' four dead politicians. What we've done with it now is different from Wally World how? I guess it's missing the Dumbo ride but as far as I'm concerned, most of the Dumbos are there, walking around taking pictures. Needless to say, I'll never waste my time with it again. No one else should either.

I was far more moved by the mass grave at Wounded Knee and the understanding of what had happened near where I was standing.

Edit for typo(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[packsaddle]

double post and I have no idea how it happened.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Twocubdad]

As Patriots Point is in Charleston, South Carolina, not Massachussetts, I'm assuming you've not been there.

 

First of all, there's not much activity there. The only thing on the shore is a parking lot, gift shop and a mock Vietnam-era operations base which probably won't survive the next hurricane. The ship itself is a couple hundred yards out into what is already one of the busiest shipping channels on the east coast, Charleston harbor and the Cooper River. It's a big, static hunk of steel that doesn't even float. An adjacent marina gets more traffic.

 

Secondly, around here pre-existing uses hold rather large sway. It's unlikely the town (Patriots Point is actually across the harbor from Charleston in the Town of Mt. Plesant) would re-zone the museum to a non-conforming use. As long as the museum conforms to it's zoning, any new neighbors can go pound sand.

 

I don't know if the proceeds from development would benefit the Yorktown itself, but it sure needs the money. They are currently looking as having to spend BIG BUCKS to install sprinklers in the bunk rooms or be forced to end the overnight camping on board which the Scouts enjoy so much.

 

And last, follow the money. Development may be big bucks, but in Charleston, tourism -- especially historical tourism -- is the largest industry by far. You're about as likely to get a McDonald's on the Battery as you are to get rid of the Yorktown.

[CalicoPenn]

Mea Culpa - I saw Charleston and the word Patriot's Point and my first thought was the Boston area, known for an awful lot of patriots of the US Revolution.

 

I read the newspaper article and didn't notice that the paper was from South Carolina and not Massachussetts (there are an awful lot of papers on the intertubes that make it hard to determine exactly where they are. It's not like reading the New York Times, the Chicago Tribune or the LA Daily News - there is no doubt where they come from. But name a paper the Democratic Republican Tribune and it could be from anywhere.

 

Pack - ah, got it - it was more a comment on the Disneyfication of the monument than Disney running it. When I was there, I didn't see any fake Presidents running about, or caricature artists, or the like - perhaps there was a special event going on?

 

But I will agree that there were quite a few "Dumbos" walking around - on the road in, there was a Mountain Goat standing along the side of the road and some woman kept trying to get close so she could pet it.

 

 

[packsaddle]

Calico, I am not sure about it but there was a packed crowd for sure. It could be that I just didn't notice some kind of special event. I for sure was not prepared for the spectacle that I observed.

 

To me the spectacle of Mt. Rushmore is sharpened by the contrast with Wounded Knee. In the former, throngs of rich people bask in illusions of celebrity, fame, and the immortality of legend and myth. In the latter, the remnants of a people cling to their lives in the omnipresence of a reminder of the reality of their mortality and anonymity. The irony is that the throngs mobbing the former become less real in their lives as a result of their pursuit of intimacy with celebrity, combined with superficial 'knowledge' of their own history.

At Wounded Knee, people who are quite understanding of reality and who know, in profound terms, their history, live lives with hardly more anonymity than those in the former group. They just know it.