Transportation Questions

[SctDad]

I have a question about the transportation to and from campouts.

 

This is also ini reference to a Cub Scout Family Campout.

 

We returned from our camping trip today. It was a two hour drive from site to CO. Before we left, I asked everyone to meet at the CO and leave from there so that we could ensure that everyone made it back safely. About 14 miles out I had one parent call me on the phone, she said her boys were ansy and they HAD to go ahead and go home. The other just left. I took this as he just didn't care what I as tour leader/cubmaster.

 

Has this happened with other groups. Was I wrong to ensure that other people made it back safely before releasing everyone.

 

There is also an example that I will add later. I want to see some reactions first.

[Basementdweller]

As long as they only have their own son in the car I don't have a problem with it. They are adults after all. Familys are busy, All I ask is that they tell me in advance they are leaving the event early and that they check out with me before they leave, Just a courtesy thing for me so we can redress buddys and body count.

[Nike]

I prefer that before leaving the activity, the SM, CM, tour leader ask who is driving back to our CO and who is going right home and with which boys/gear. If I have my son and two others in my neighborhood with thier gear, why should I follow the troop trailer when I have made arrangements with their parents to drop them off at home? Now, if I have boys whose parents are picking them up at the CO, I would of course go back to the CO.

 

If it makes you feel better, why not ask those who don't return to the CO to call you when they get home so you can close out the trip?

[SctDad]

Now here is the other part of the story, the one that supports why I say travel as a group.

 

While traveling down the interstate, one of the parents in question suddenly pulls off to the side. I am riding behind them. No flat tire or any outward signs of trouble.

 

They get off to the side and the mother and father get out and pop the hood. She says that they all of a sudden had smoke coming out of their vents. Turned out to be nothing. It was actually soemthing in the ashtray. If something serious had happened they would have been stranded over 100 miles from home.

 

I guess I am of the type of person who has the idea, you leave together, you return together.

[ScoutNut]

For our Pack campouts every family drives themselves, with their own gear. We do not travel, either to, or from, the campsite as a group. As a matter of fact, everyone will usually arrive at different times/days, depending on their own families schedule. We will not always leave at the same time either. Many will also come only for the day.

 

We do ask that they let us know when they will be arriving, and departing, so that we can put our schedule together, and know who to expect, when, for food and activities.

 

So, to gather everyone at our CO before leaving, and on returning, is impractical for us.

 

[Bob White]

SctDad

Why are you following behind each other?

Are you not aware of what the BSA tour permit and the Risk Zone training says about caravaning?

[packsaddle]

Bob White asked a good question. Also, what was burning in the ashtray?

[SctDad]

"Are you not aware of what the BSA tour permit and the Risk Zone training says about caravaning?"

 

Not trying to be a smart alleck here, but the only thing that I could find in regards to convoy is that they say don't do it. Can someone give me a little more guidance as to what the BSA considers a convoy. (i.e. number of vehicles)

 

I would like a little more information on what things specifically are. Would two vehicles be considered a convoy.

 

As for what was burning in the ashtray. Cigarette's. The vehicle in question was carrying a family. No additional scouts. Mother, Father, and their two sons.

[OldGreyEagle]

I start off from the CO parking lot and drive to the Council Camp where the week end campout is to be held. I realize I am behind the Scoutmaster's car, do I stomp on the brakes and allow cars to pass me to avoid breaking BSA policy? Do I pull over and let other traffic pass me so I am not behind the scoutmasters car? After slowing a bit to allow other cars to pass me I realize I am behind Charlie's car, the father of the SPL, d I slow down again? I realize Fred is now behind me, the father of the ASPL. Do I now castigate him at the camp site for being directly behind me?

 

 

I think it best to leave and and come back to a central point. I remember we had a father and two scouts in the troop awhile back who would always "meet us up there" and then had to drive early back home. When I asked him why after about 3-4 times he said the chaos at the church was unbearable. Perhaps it was but for three years his kids never helped pack or unpack troop gear. SAdly he didnt get alot of the program in other parts either.

[SMEagle819]

This is what's on the December 2007 revision, 2008 printing of the BSA Local Tour Permit (trips under 500 miles):

 

18. If more than one vehicle is used to transport our group, we will establish rendezvous points at the start of each day and not attempt to have drivers closely follow the group vehicle in front of them.

 

I'm not going to fall into the trap of how to interpret "closely follow...."

 

I will say this: I have started giving out maps and directions to the drivers for trips we take. Also, on a longer drive, I list a "break" point on the way to, and on the way home. I do agree with OGE that on the return that some go directly home instead of returning to the CO and only having a few people to put away the gear from the trip, it's very frustrating and leads to less teamwork. We are working with the QM to be more involved (peer pressure) to have people come back and put away the gear.

 

To be honest, I cannot recall being trained on the "Risk Zone" when I took SM Fundamentals. Our group may have had it, I just do not recall it. Is there anywhere out there on the web that might have a synopsis of this so I can refresh, and possibly make copies to give out to our other adult leaders/drivers?

 

 

[Gunny2862]

We do NOT do convoy operations or caravan.

 

We may or may not attempt to keep each other within sight, depending on the individual drivers familiarity with the area we are transiting. We do give out strip maps to the outings destination(so we know the route and where to look for people who don't show up at one end or another) and use cell phones (where possible) for communications while in route, non-driver speaking only.

 

As to closing out a trip, "Occasionally" one family may have another event that requires their children to be present and they depart and do not rendezvous at the end. In those occasions I ask that they call us when they hit the city limits, that they have only their Scout and we count them as having returned.

We aren't yet having the issue of people bailing without having returned to the point of origin but have "occasionally" had people leave immediately after they got to the start before the work was done, which became topics for SM conferences.

[ScoutNut]

It is one thing to be transporting a group of Boy Scouts to a campout in a few cars. It is quite another to have complete families driving only themselves to a Pack overnighter.

 

With a Boy Scout Troop, yes everyone meets at the CO, distributes Troop gear, and Scouts into a minimum number of cars and then leaves. Everyone also returns to the CO, puts away Troop gear, and waits for parents to pick up their Scout and his personal gear.

 

SctDad is talking about a PACK overnighter.

 

With entire families driving just themselves, carrying only their own gear, there is no need to require everyone to meet at the CO. There is no Pack gear to distribute, and no Scouts that have been dropped off for transport by other people. Requiring the families to meet at the CO, and leave as a group, and leave camp as a group, and gather at the CO again before being allowed to go home, is unnecessary, and would seriously reduce the number of families attending our Pack camping trips.

 

 

 

 

[Gunny2862]

Sorry, I really can read, most of the time anyway.

True the pack situation is different.

 

But, then, do the parents expect the Pack to help them if they have a problem on the road or can't find their way to the event site? If there's no coordination outbound or returning how do you know everyone is back?

 

Pleading ignorance, never did the Cub side, Boy didn't want to.

[packsaddle]

My interpretation of #18 is that each driver should merely have a goal of getting their passengers to the destination safely and NOT an additional distraction of trying to stay with another vehicle. It is obvious that if several vehicles leave at the same time, headed for the same destination, there is a finite probability that they will take the same path and be near one another. As long as they are operating independently from each other, I consider #18 to be met.

 

The reason I asked about the ash tray was if adults were smoking cigarettes, the source of the smoke seems obvious.

[ScoutNut]

"But, then, do the parents expect the Pack to help them if they have a problem on the road or can't find their way to the event site? If there's no coordination outbound or returning how do you know everyone is back?"

 

 

All of our families have cell phones, contact numbers for the BALOO leaders, and a map to the location. As a last resort they can always pull into a gas station and ask for directions or help. We are not going into the wilderness. We try to only go about 1 hour away, and we know when everyone is expected at the campsite.

 

We don't hold our families hands. We assume they know how to drive, and what to do if they have a problem on the road. If something very bad happens, there would not be a whole lot anyone in the Pack could do to help at that point anyway.