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Nessmuk

Neckerchief Rant

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I like the idea of using signaling flags as a neckerchief, but.... that would ..... mean some .... sort of .... connecton to, the uh , um, outdoors. EEEK! I wonder ......

 

Orange and white signal flags would make a nice neckerchief, folded into the triangle, rolled and worn, but someone will fold it the wrong way, wrong the wrong side and wind up looking like a soup sandwich!

 

Hey national, lose the Elvis collars, bring back quality uniform items, upgrade as necessary.

 

G

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Right on, Nessmuk. The neckerchief has been killed and its death is killing the uniform. Under the collar style looks sloppy and Scouts don't look like Scouts did in an earlier era when the complete uniform was worn with pride. I like the old, full-squares for size and comfort and usefulness.

 

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Over the collar, when I wear it. Most of the time I wear the NESA bolo or something similar. I agree with Kraut60 regarding functionality. If it was something I could actually use, I'd probably go back to the neckerchief.

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I think this is a great topic of discussion. Being relatively new to my son's troop, I realized they had run out of the custom, triangle neckerchiefs they had been using, and the last handful of scouts to join the troop were not issued any. As a part of my taking over the SM position, I proposed the committee look into going back to a square neckerchief, after getting the okay from my DE. Having found Chief Neckerchiefs via the internet, I asked them what the largest, square neckerchief they could make. After months of discussion, we went with a 33" (51" diagonal) square neckerchief, with an edge binding that extends 3" (Yellow neckerchief with red binding) on the ends so it could be tied as in a good turn knot. There is no way it can be worn under the collar and I have instructed all of the scouts and leaders to wear it over. One of our ASM's is an old school scouter, who still wears (and fits his youth uniform from the 70's) had a lengthy discussion about where you roll or stuff it, and we decided to stuff it, unrolled, thru the turks head woggle.

 

One of our boys went to Philmont on a council contingent, and his father had to tell me that his neckerchief made the rest of the boys look pretty dismal in the way they wore theirs tucked under the collar, the day they all left. We wore them to camp, last month, and even though our troop is small at the moment, you could see our handful of boys coming for dinner flags a mile away (well maybe not a mile). With our troop 70th anniversary coming up in January (Jan. 1938), this will be a great addition to our renewal as we continue to rebuild this very old troop, that almost died before my son and myself showed up to keep it going. My hat is off to the work that Chief neckerchiefs did to make these wonderful additions to our troop uniform. They make a great product.

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Regarding the over/under colar thing and Kraut-60s post.

 

I have read about turning the collar under and wearing the neckerchief on top as many Scouters remember from their collarless shirt days as Scouts.

 

I like the way it looks too, so I showed the guys in our Troop. None of them like it. They all opted for the under the collar method and that's what we all do.

 

 

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gwd,

 

Good on you. It's a program decision, and your PLC made it :)

 

Doesn't matter what we think; it matters that your PLC made a decision. Now they get to keep it going forward :)

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Our troop does the under the collar with the tips of the neckerchief rolled up. Very unusual....

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Sigh. I might have mentioned this in this thread, but maybe it was in a prior one on this topic.

 

When I joined the scouts (back in the 70s), we had the collarless shirt that works well with a neckerchief. My troop used as their standard one of the BSA 'kerchiefs (solid blue, as I recall). I personally never cared for the kerchiefs. I recall my slide would slip all the time.

 

When I was a little older, I discovered they came out with collared shirts, so got one and would wear a bolo tie (preferably a scouting related one). I didn't get the Oscar DeLarente uniform until I went to the 81 jamboree. I seem to recall we turned in our collars to wear our neckerchief (yes, we had to wear the jamboree neckerchief at times).

 

When I did Wood Badge in the late 80s, they again had us turn in our collars to wear the participant neckerchief. While this may have looked better then wearing the neckerchief either under or over the collar, it was NOT comfortable, so I didn't like it. At some point later, I think they dropped the practice of turned the collar under (is this allowed? I'm not sure).

 

I think it interesting that in looking at the UK Scout catalog they show the kids wearing neckerchiefs at all levels of scouting. The neckerchief is worn with t-shirts, polos, uniform shirts, both under and over the collars. I am uncertain if they have any guidiance as to which is prefered, or if it just doesn't matter.

 

Its going to be interesting to see things at the World Jamboree. The adult staff seem to be expected to wear a couple of neckerchiefs at all times. In fact, these neckerchiefs, along with our id badge, is what will allow us into the adult staff area. This appears to be a practice at world scouting events- using a neckerchief to denote participation in the event.

 

As to rolling up the tips. I've seen this on occasion. Gives the end of the neckerchiefs a 'cut off' appearance. I have never understood the appeal of this, other then I guess some think it makes the kerchief look sharper.

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Ditto to John in KC on his praise about the boy-run troop voting on the neckerchief style..

 

I was a Scout from late 70's to mid 80's (uniform transition days) in a very much boy run troop -and strong with the Patrol Method.

 

When I was SPL we voted to ditch the BSA neckerchief for a custom all black necker with a skull graphic from one of Megadeath's album cover's from the time...I actually voted for the Molly Hatchet graphic but was outnumbered by the Scouts in the "Metal Head" Patrol. My "Southern Rockers" patrol had already disbanded for troop leadership positions.

 

On a campout a little later, we voted to shave and spray paint our Scoutmaster's head while he slept in his tent- voting is fun but it is different than doing !

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Hello all,

 

I just went to my sons first pack meeting and I was slightly disgusted, by how sloppy all the boys looked by trying to wear the neckerchief under the collar. I was a cub scout and I still have my uniform, which is blue with no collar.

 

I understand not valuing function, but having placed under the collar should not count as fashion either. This is a fashion disaster. The collars get turned up and dont stay in place. These boys look sloppy. And there is no uniformity in the uniforms.

 

 

I place this blame on the fathers. Because I looked around and the pack and almost all the dens were being ran by mothers. I give applause to the moms for stepping up. Be this trend of moms not dads who were scouts has had to play a part in this feminization of the uniform.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Z

 

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" For First Aid in the days of proper wound sanitation and bloodborne pathogens, I'm afraid the old necker has lost a fair bit of its usefulness, too."

 

Don't know about that. My first aid manual says that when you don't have anything better, use your shirt or undershirt to staunch the flow of blood. "We'll have to let him bleed out because he might get an infection from my neckerchief."

 

The necker is also useful for making splints and slings.

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Feminization of the Uniform? No. Not really. I don't see it.

 

The problem with "under the collar" is it does not look as good, does not lay well on the shirt, and it's more difficult to put on. The neckerchief is not a necktie.

 

Just my opinion.

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"I just went to my sons first pack meeting and I was slightly disgusted, by how sloppy all the boys looked by trying to wear the neckerchief under the collar."

 

According to the current BSA Insignia Guide - "The unit has a choice of wearing the neckerchief over the collar or under the collar."

 

 

"I was a cub scout and I still have my uniform, which is blue with no collar."

 

That is not the current BSA Cub Scout uniform. Your son could wear your old uniform shirt (it is still official, but the COMPLETE uniform should be worn), along with your old necker, pants, belt, etc, if he wants to.

 

 

"I place this blame on the fathers. Because I looked around and the pack and almost all the dens were being ran by mothers."

 

The female den leaders in your Pack did not write the BSA Insignia Guide. If you are not going to step up, take the training and become a leader in your son's Pack, then stop complaining about how the dens and Pack are run.

 

 

"Be this trend of moms not dads who were scouts has had to play a part in this feminization of the uniform."

 

I would bet that many of those moms WERE Scouts. BTW, the current uniform was created by a man.

 

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And by the way, I don't know too many women involved in scouting who think the current BSA shirt/necker is a smart look either.

 

 

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But the shirt was designed by Oscar de la Renta, Lisa ;)

 

I thought women adored the de la Renta label... ;)

 

(Tongue planted FIRMLY in cheek)

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