A NEW Uniform

[VentureScoutNY 10]

This thread was spun from another thread.Ok this is a spin off from the shoesVSsneakers but works more with the Uniform itslef, cause I liked all the replies I got...

 

I'm gonna quote Proud Eagle from the last post:

 

"So we have a "field uniform" that probably shouldn't be worn in the field, and we have an "activity uniform" (because of the Scout shorts or pants) that is only marginally better suited to Scouting activities. Perhaps BSA would be wise to change its uniforms to something more practical. At the least they could stop calling the uniform the "field uniform", especially since we have no common "dress uniform" to differentiate it from."

 

Why doesn't the BSA make a new Uniform that would be more Practical for all scouts in all programs(besides $$, there are many cheap materials that are durable) Venturing took a great leap with their new pants. They are tough, durable, and have pockets!! Can you believe it!? Pockets that hold more than your change!

 

I believe it is time for a new Uniform for the BSA. I know many people do not like change...but maybe just a simple change in material and style for pants, the shirt has changed little in the past 50 years besides wording, patches and material.

 

For Scouters in the North East, and the North West we have 4 warm months depending... May, June, July, & August. All the rest are cool, and COLD. The current cotton light weight Uniform is great for the nice weather, but thats 4 out of 12 months. What about the other 8... I know weather varies all over the Country though... Wool..a great material...and there are many new materials and fabrics that can be used(not coming to my mind right now). When is the next Uniform change? This Uniform will be 20 years old soon. Is it time for a change?

 

Thoughts...

 

Yours in Scouting

VentureScoutNY

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"but maybe just a simple change in material and style for pants, the shirt has changed little in the past 50 years besides wording, patches and material."

 

Shirts haven't changed much in the past 50 years but the BSA shirt has gone through some major changes.

 

In the 50's and 60's it was cotton with pleated pockets, tails, a yoke, and the collar had a band so it could be worn buttoned. Later the pleats and the collar went away and the shirt became plastic. Next they changed the color, eliminated the yoke and the tails.

 

[Proud Eagle 13]

As much as I hate to suggest that more uniforms would be better, I do think that would be the best solution. The best idea I can think of is to create a "field uniform" in two material types, one cool weather, one warm weather. Long shirts and pants could be available in both materials, with short sleeves and shorts available in cool only. The decorations on that uniform should be kept to a minimum. There could also then be a "dress uniform", something farely simple like a uniform jacket, a shirt, pants, and tie. The uniform could be made even cheeper by allowing the substitution of items that are similar enough in color and patern to be indestinguishable from the official version.

 

Perhaps a better idea would be to just create an alternative version of the current uniform with the cut and fabric optimized for wear during outings. This would probably require 2 types, a cool and warm, to be created. In that way people could choose to own whatever version of the uniform works best for them. Another possibility would be to create simplified insignia as options for the new field uniform. The new simplified insignia should probably get rid of the plastic backing and be smaller to make the uniform be more breathable. The simplified insignia should probably be limited to unit identification, position patches, and ranks.

 

Then again perhaps the current uniforms are all we need. Though I doubt it. Consider this personal observation: US Army winter BDUs are more comfortable in August in KY than a BSA uniform consisting of a short sleeve standard blend shirt and pants.

 

Anywase, no matter what happens I am in favor of proper uniforming. Just because I think there is room for improvement is no reason to stop using the uniform to the best of my ability. (Though I do sometimes make minor adjustments for practicality. I.E., I often swap scout socks for hiking socks, I sometimes wear a long sleeve shirt under a short sleeve scout shirt, I sometimes wear a pair of flannel lined pants that are of the same color as scout pants.)

[Sturgen 10]

The BSA needs to overhaul the entire uniform system. To do this I would suggest a number of things:

First the uniform needs to be inexpensive, so that all boys can afford the full uniform, shirt, pants, socks, belt, etc. Instead of $40 a piece for the shirt and pants, perhaps $40 together.

 

Second the BSA needs to stop pushing wearing the full uniform while hiking or camping, I would never wear $200 dollars worth of cotton on a hike. Instead there need to be three different uniform sets, I will call them class A-C.

A: Formal uniform, same as class B however BSA pants and socks are mandatory, with a neck or bolo tie, and black polished dress shoes or boots for adults, and MB sash and dress shoes or boots for youth. Campaign hat optional. This class is primarily for use at COH, BSA award ceremonies, when representing the BSA in a formal setting, funerals, etc.

B: Full uniform, BSA shirt, BSA pants or respectable khaki pants, neckerchief (optional for adults), dark socks for BSA pants, hiking boots or respectable shoes. This would be the primary uniform for meetings, volunteer service, scout resident camp, etc. Campaign hat or BSA/troop Baseball Cap optional.

C: Work/Hiking Uniform, BSA official or Troop t-shirt, sweater, or jacket, any type of respectable pants depending on activity, appropriate foot wear, BSA or troop hat where appropriate. This would be used for active physical service in the public, hiking, resident camp activity times, etc. Any BSA hat or other respectable head cover is appropriate

 

Anything else would be considered work or civilian wear, which are both appropriate depending on the activity for wear at BSA functions, examples being painting, staining, concrete or other work where clothes may be permanently damaged or stained.

 

Changing the current scout pants to resemble in structure, although not color or design, to current military BDUs would also make the uniform more appealing to youth and more functional for all.

A reduction in cost of a BSA jacket, either the red jacket or an olive drab equivalent would also encourage individuals to wear said jackets on a regular basis.

Many youth have very limited incomes, and many parents are not willing to turn over $100 for a uniform their son will wear once a week, and most likely grow out of in two years.

 

[Region 7 Voyageur 10]

Bring back garters for the knee socks. They looked cool.

 

[Twocubdad 665]

Sturgen, your greatest objection is cost, but the A, B, C format you propose will cost even more than the current multi-use uniform.

 

Obviously, the current uniform is targeted at the middle of the curve. It's not much good for winters in Montana or summers in Georgia. From that standpoint, I'd like to see BSA tweak it a bit by adding some optional pieces. A standard undershirt would be a great addition. Seems like most Scouts have short-sleeved uniform shirts and wear all different shirts under them. A standard color undershirt would help the looks. They could be offered in short and long sleeve and cotton and poly.

 

I've written before that I like to see a better selection of outer wear. Scouts in the winter look like a bunch of refugees. I'd like to see a liner/shell system that could be purchased and worn in pieces to keep the price down and make them more flexible. Seems like it would be easy to go to Columbia, Northface or one of the other major outfitters and ask them to manufacture one of their current garments in BSA uniform colors (the same arrangement BSA has with Woolrich for the current wool jackets). I have a suit like that from Columbia that probably cost me over $200 all together, but the only really big outlay was for the parka and liner which were about $130. The rain pants and liners were bought separately and cost maybe $30-40 each.

 

Putting this together, a Scout could reasonably afford to wear a long-sleeve poly undershirt, his Scout uniform shirt and a fleece jacket and be comfortable 9 months of the year in most parts of the country and year-round in many areas.

 

Pants are another story. I despise the current field pants. They may fit a 90-pound 12-year-old, but for those of us with a little more, shall we say "mature" shape (read that however you will), they are danged uncomfortable. Execpt for campouts, I wear a pair for the suit-weight wool pants which are more of a "gentleman's" cut. I don't think BDU pants are necessarily the answer. The pants pocket configuration needs to be something that works both as trousers and shorts. If they can work out a BDU-style pant like that I'd be fine with it. I just want the dang things to fit better.

[Fat Old Guy 11]

I know that BSA would never adopt something so practical but the M-65 field jacket is nearly perfect.

 

water resistant

warm with the removable lining

has a hideaway hood

can have a heavy hood attached

four big pockets

drawstring waist

drawstring bottom

 

One problem that I see happening is goofy parents buying coats in adult size large for a kid that is 5' tall and 100 lbs.

 

 

 

[dsteele 20]

I won't enter the debate on a new uniform, but I do want to point out that there is a current BSA dress uniform. You can find it in your catalog.

 

The dress uniform consists of a blue blazer, with pewter buttons bearing the BSA logo, a silver, blue and red tie, and gray slacks. There is also an emblem to be worn on the pocket. Any adult registered with the Boy Scouts of America can wear it, but it's rarely seen worn by other than professional staff or executive board members. Ladies registered with the BSA wear a scarf and skirt rather than the tie and slacks, but other than that, the uniform is the same.

 

Have fun with the thread, I'm enjoying it.

 

DS

[Sturgen 10]

Actually for most youth, not holding a national position in OA or something of the sort, it would be far cheaper as that all they would need is the shirt and sash from the BSA. Shoes, pants, socks could all come from any other store as long as they were presentable. Most troops that I have met already produce a troop neckerchief, t-shirt, and sometimes hat at little or no cost to their members. Of the top of my head the scout pants are $45 and the socks are $8, most kids have a pair of khaki pants and if not, they can be picked up for $5 at any thrift store.

As to wear for under the uniform in colder months, troops ought to make a decision on what they want for themselves, it could be as simple as a white long sleeved t with no writing on it.

 

[hops_scout 9]

Dave, its great to see you here:)

 

I still think a pair of OD BDU pants would fit the bill perfectly in the field.

 

FOG, I'm with you about the jacket too;)

[VentureScoutNY 10]

Sturgen..thats not very practical to have members of the BSA that are not in the OA wear just the shirt and sash...

 

What most troops are trying to do is to get their scouts in full uniform, besides the fact that it is an impractical field uniform. And the OA only repsents some scots, not the majority. In my first troop 1 scout was in OA for about 4 years until I was voted in. As for shoes shirts and socks being bought not through BSA you would have an assortment of kids in thousands of different outfits.

 

What we need is uniformity. I'm gonna quote Proud Eagle again

 

"Just because I think there is room for improvement is no reason to stop using the uniform to the best of my ability."

 

Sturgen I agree with your 1st post but your second post is a far cry from what the BSA needs to do.

 

I agree with TwoCubDad in the area of scout pants. They are horrible and are so useless. If they were made with a better material and some pockets they might attract scouts to wear them if they had the oppertunity.

 

I say we need a summer uniform and a winter uniform. Both the same in look and style but made of different materials. Materials that are rugged and can be useful in the outdoors, in the elements, and at COH's. And some uniformity in Hats too. I'm not a fan of made to order hats. Either the campaign hat, ball cap, or expedition hat. Wouldn't it be great that all scouts had a red wool coat too, or even a green one would be nice. Many complaints from scouts today is they think the uniform is "gay"--> thats kids terms for lame. If BSA made all these adjustments and made the patches simpler and less colorful,and add some pockets to the pants and I will be a HAPPY CAMPER!!

[KoreaScouter 13]

Ah, splendid, another uniform complaint thread! I love getting in on these!

 

Here's the latest pro-change anecdote from the KS household:

 

Not long ago, little KS went camping. In the course of their capture the flag game, he ended up on the business end of a fairly steep slope with his buddy, and they both slid (his estimate, not mine) about 150 feet to the bottom. Not quite like Chris Farley in "Black Sheep", but he did take most of the trip planted firmly on his whoops-a-daisy. Now, that normally wouldn't be a problem, except he was wearing his uniform trousers, and that one slide (albeit a long one) wore two holes exactly where you'd expect them to be. So what, go get another pair, right? Well, I had gotten these trousers from E-Bay, and they were unused when I got them, but they were the older design, with the real cargo pockets on the outside of the thigh instead of the chiclet-sized ones sewn on top of the other pockets. Those things are virtually irreplaceable!

 

What's my point? Well, two of them actually. One, sturdier materials. Two, put the cargo pockets back where they belong, and make them big enough to hold more than a book of matches.

 

Thanks for the opportunity to vent...and to think I almost missed this thread....

 

KS

[Sturgen 10]

Venturescout: perhaps I ought to have been clearer, by sash I was referring to the merit badge sash. My reference to the OA was simply in regards to it is one of the few places where a youth can hold a leadership position at higher than the troop level, hence requiring a bit more formality.

In regards to uniform pants, I am of the opinion that uniformity within the troop is more important than uniformity at a national level. I got in a good little debate in regards to this with a member of the national council in the Seattle area. Blue jeans always look awful, but khakis look fine with the current shirt, and although I generally dislike the woodland camo BDUs they are a sign of patriotism to some troops from military bases.

 

[VentureScoutNY 10]

Ok, I see what you are saying Sturgent.

 

BDU's camo pants may be somewhat patriotic, but anyone involved in the BSA can NOT wear CAMO. It is in the Patch Placement guide that members of the BSA can not immitate the military. When you say khakis...do you mean the color khaki? Or OD pants other than BSA?

 

Keep'em coming everyone!

[Fat Old Guy 11]

" It is in the Patch Placement guide that members of the BSA can not immitate the military."

 

Wearing camo pants doesn't mean that you are imitating the military. Around here, if you wear BDUs, you're imitating a construction worker.

 

In the early days, BSA wore surplus Army uniforms including the high collared jacket and leggings. I've read that during WW I this caused some confusion so Boy Scouts started wearing the BSA emblem on their hats.