SR540Beaver 116 Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 In the many discussions on uniform pants, I think I have mentioned my desired improvements before. One of them was to have one pair of pants with zip on/off legs. It would be much cheaper than buying two pairs of pants and cut down on the amout of clothing you would have to take to camp. If it gets hot, zip the legs off. If it gets cool, zip the legs on. No need to run to the camp site and change in the tent. Now my question. During the first weekend of Wood Badge, one of the ladies had scout pants with zip on/off legs. Real official scout pants. She bought a pair and took to an alteration shop who cut the legs off and installed a zipper for her. The shorts half have an outer flap to hide the zipper and an inner flap to keep the zipper from runbbing your leg. The length is the same as regulation shorts and the flap just looks like the normal hem. The alteration shop is only a mile from my house. The question is this, would these modified shorts be considered part of the "official" uniform? Link to post Share on other sites
dsteele 20 Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 Technically, yes. Someone, sooner or later, would call you on it. But it wouldn't be me DS Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 She may be interested in knowing that she probably ruined a pretty good pair of pants. The army did testing for zip off style pant legs and fiundt that it required to light weight of a material for the zipper to hold up and that the pieces faded at different rates do to varying exposure to sun and detergents and so that looked very bad in a short period of time. The army determined that zip-offs were not functional for therir purposes and the BSA has adopted that position as well based on the military's findings. Bob White Link to post Share on other sites
SR540Beaver 116 Posted September 17, 2003 Author Share Posted September 17, 2003 Dsteele, Technically yes......they would be official? Or did you really mean no? Yes, someone would call you on it, the uniform police are out there and just waiting for such an occurance. Bob, I have no doubt you have the correct scoop on this. However, WHERE do you come up with all this information that no one else seems privy to? How in the world did you know that the BSA considered doing this and scrapped it based on the military's findings? My son has a number of pants of various colors that zip off that he has worn out and the color has remained consistent between the top and bottom. Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 I'd argue that they aren't official since BSA never manufactured pants in that configuration. Link to post Share on other sites
le Voyageur 72 Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 hmmmmmmm, wonder if my Official Scout trousers are "Official" ...instead of zip offs, mine are now knickers. IMHO, they are kinda dashing in an old fashion way... Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 At least she had pants on! Link to post Share on other sites
hops_scout 9 Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 "I'd argue that they aren't official since BSA never manufactured pants in that configuration." If the zipper is covered, you would have to be up close to notice they are zip offs. I think having something like that is a great idea... might actually convince me my mom needs to buy me a pair;) Link to post Share on other sites
Twocubdad 665 Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Officer Twocubdad here, wearing mirrored Ray-Bans and a toothpicking in the corner of my mouth. I'd let the lady off with a warning that she not try to get too cute with the Uniform Police again. The pants come un-hemmed. She can make the case that she only put two hems in the pants. Frankly, I'd be glad to see her kid in my pack. I had a kid show up Monday night perfectly uniformed from the waist up, but wearing bright orange nylon surfer shorts. Good Grief! Link to post Share on other sites
dsteele 20 Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Sorry, about the "Technically, yes." When I typed that, I mis-remembered the question to be "Would my pants be in violation of the uniform regulations?" The answer to that is "Technically, yes." The answer to the origional question is No. They would not be official, but few would be able to tell. DS Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2781 Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 OK Dsteel, are you saying when your pants are unzipped, they are not offical. But once the wearer zips them back up, then they are official? So much to ponder. Barry Link to post Share on other sites
JimmyD 10 Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Well I don't think they would be considered "offical" anymore because of what was donbe to them. Hemming is ok becuase of the fact they can be brought back to original form but after adding zippers i'd like to see how they ould be brought back to original form. However I would like to see that idea put into place with the BSA but I doubt it will happen soon. Link to post Share on other sites
LauraT7 13 Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 KWC - Ok, I confess, report me to the "Pant Police"! I did this to my scout uniform pants, also. And I know you are NOT talking about me, specifically, because I didn't use an alterations shop, I did them myself. It was very easy. We are all familiar with the 'fit' problem of the uniform pants. It is just not possible to find ONE pant style that is going to comfortably fit ALL body types, Male and Female from 6 to 60. I have always 'made do' with Scout colored, non uniform pants and shorts. For summer camp, I will STILL utilize non-uniform, color matched shorts in order to have changes to wear. But I needed LONG pants, and could not find a pair, in green, at any price that fit me. So if I was going to buy a pair and alter them - I figured I might as well get the "official" ones. I have been so jealous of my son's many pairs of zip offs- they are so practical for camping - and they just DON'T make them in my size - Scout uniform or ANY kind! So, since I was altering them, anyway, and they were SO expensive, ( I think they were around $45?) I made them do double duty and made zip offs out of them. At least I'll get to wear them twice as much! When the legs are zipped off - you cannot tell they are zip offs - you can't see the zipper hidden in the hem - they look EXACTLY like uniform shorts. When the legs are zipped on, you can see a seam and a fold. I choose not to put in the "inner flap" for bulk reasons. That scout fabric is a little stiff - and the legs are loose enough that the zippers don't bother me. I choose PLASTIC zippers, rather than metal, for flexibility, weight and wear comfort. As for the color matching problem, I have seen this 'fading' happen in my son's zip offs - usually in the summer when he tends to wear them all day as shorts alone - never using the legs and not sending the zipped-off legs thru the wash with the shorts. It isn't so much the WEAR that fades them, as the cuffs not getting washed as often. I also got tired of trying to match up similar pants with slightly different shades ( intentionally - he had about 3 tan pr that vary only slightly) so now Zip off must go thru the wash with the legs zipped on - or i won't wash them. that keeps both the colors and the parts together - it also protects the zippers from damage in the wash. Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 I don't like the feeling of the stiff zipper encircling my thigh. Also, if you put a razor sharp crease in a pair of zip off legs, you'll ruin the zippers. Link to post Share on other sites
SR540Beaver 116 Posted September 22, 2003 Author Share Posted September 22, 2003 FOG: Also, if you put a razor sharp crease in a pair of zip off legs, you'll ruin the zippers. True enough. But since only about one in a thousand bother to put a crease in their pants, it does not affect too many scouters. BTW, the temps have gotten cooler in the past week and I go back to Wood Badge this Thursday night. I broke down and coughed up $45 at the Scout Shop for a pair of long pants. If I'd acted earlier, I'd have ordered long rise over the internet. The pants off of the rack at the Scout Shop fit like hiphuggers on me. They only carry one cut and one fabric at the shop. I took them to the alteration shop to have them hemmed. I resisted the temptation to have zippered legs in them since I already have a pair or shorts. I'll just add the weight of an extra pair of pants to my backpack. Link to post Share on other sites
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