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I agree with ScoutNut. Something is rotten here.


In addition to getting your UC and COR in the loop, I sense it's time for the DE to pay the "annual business call" on the Chartered Partner IH. DE needs to say a few things like:


- The Chartered Partner owns the equipment.


IH or COR need to withdraw signature cards from current leadership, and there needs to be an external audit. I'm not saying any of the criminal words. I am saying the parents sense there's low hanging fruit. It's time to put the watchdog in the orchard.

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DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER! Soemthing is definately not right. gear belongs to CO, not individuals, not dens, not even the pack, BUT THE CO. If they want the gear, they need to talk to the CO about BUYING the gear IF the pack and/or CO wants to part with it.


Ditto with the money. Talk with the the COR and/or IH ASAP and I'ld invite teh DE and/or UC as well. If memory serves this will be considered a "Unit Matter" but he can give advice and guidance


Also Webelos don't do their own thing, except an occasional camping trip. THEY ARE PART OF THE PACK!


A few other things.


1)Second recommendation that You and the CC switch. CM's job is alot easier than CC, andyou seem to be doing the the CC's job already.


2) Get copies of Program Helps. They can be downloaded for free via national and it helps new leaders out.


Good Luck



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Wow, I guess great minds really do think alike. I have been thinking I should switch too. It seems to make sense.


The CO is a church,of which the outgoing CM is an active member. So, I am not sure how a talk with the COR is going to go. We live in a town of about 400 people, every body knows every body.


My spidey sense is telling me there is something wrong here. I had such an uneasy feeling being around them last night. I was considering just letting it go, but I am not sure I can do that. They are taking money from these boys.


I am going to make some calls today and make sure we get a UC right away.


I feel like I am opening a big can of worms here.

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"I also learned that this group of parents has gotten together and decided to start their own troop after the boys cross over in Feb."


"The CO is a church,of which the outgoing CM is an active member."


Just guessing here ... Is this same Church also going to be charting this new troop? As others have stated, the CO is the one that actually owns the cash and equipment. If the CO doesn't change ... well, this may be an uphill fight ...


I'm also going to guess that the outgoing CM, assuming he or his wife are not also the COR, is in really tight with the COR. You may want to pull a copy of the charter and find out who all of the players are before going too much further.


"I feel like I am opening a big can of worms here."


Sadly, you probably are correct. After doing some digging, your best recourse may be to go to the Church Pastor to plead your case. Let them know that they are gaining a new troop possibly at the expense of the existing pack. Ask the Pastor to intercede to do whats right for ALL of the boys.

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Since you have stated that the Church is going to be the CO for the new Troop as well as the Pack, there may be little you can do about the camping gear and the money. It is quite plausible that the CO sees it as a redistribution of assets. The CO could be viewing it all as expanding its support for the Scouting program. If the money is going to start a new Troop and not necessarily just to the 3 boys.

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You have a Unit Commissioner. Every unit has a unit commissioner.


If there is not someone with the "unit commissioner" patch, the unit is covered by the Assistant District Commissioner who teams with the UC over several units.


If there is not an ADC covering your unit, THEN THE DISTRICT COMMISSIONER has the duty to provide you program support. Call him.


Given the mess this seems to be, I think you and your CC should consider talking with another Chartered Partner, forming a new unit, and inviting the remainder to move. Leave the old place with an empty shell of a Pack, which is what the current regime is doing to you. Sad this is. :( ...

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I agree with what everyone has said about the money issue - from the standards of the BSA, this is NOT how things work. That said, your CO is in charge and, politically, from what you've said, I don't see how you are going to win this one. Looked at from their point of view (which, to repeat, is NOT the BSA standard) they have what could seem to an outsider to be a perfectly reasonable argument.


So, I think I'm going to be a bit contrarian here, but here goes.


First, is anybody in your current pack (besides the 2nd year Webelos folks, obviously) active in this church?


The way this is shaping up politically you may want to consider the long view. It would appear these folks are in it for their boys, so this "troop" is going to be short-lived. By the time your now-1st year Webelos move into it (two years) I suspect it'll be gone. That's going to leave you with a chartered troop to move into when your version of the pack starts crossing over. They'll have to leave the camping equipment behind (a battle you'll be much better prepared to fight in a year or two anyway) so you should be all set. In the meantime, borrow the equipment - you won't need it that often.


Even if they're not gone, your parents will be infiltrating this new troop with their own ideas of how things should be run.


The trick is going to be holding on to those two Web 1's. Any chance of getting more of that age group involved?


Just a couple of thoughts,


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With your CO (the church) also planning on chartering the Troop this could get sticky.


Call your District Commissioner (ask your DE or look at your council web site for contact info) and have him/her attend the meeting you are having with your COR. It might be beneficial if the head of the church (Pastor?) was present also. You need to find out what the church's position is on this whole thing. They need to be reminded that they have a commitment to the Pack as well.


I still wonder why it is that these folks never made a go of recruiting/keeping any other boys in the Pack for the last 4 years except the few in their own son's den. I would make sure whoever ends up leading the 4th grade Webelos makes sure to take their boys to visit as many OTHER Troops as possible. I get the feeling any Troop run by this bunch will be scary.



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ScoutNut, I believe she said she was in a small town (around 400?) - I may have misinterpreted something though, since 22+ seems like a big pack for that small a town. But, if so, that might make it difficult to visit too many other troops. Also makes the politics really problematic. Has to drive 1.5 hours for training.


Changes the perspective completely from, for instance, my place - 15 minutes to training (in two districts), 20 minutes to two of my council's offices (there are three), several troops within a stone's throw.


Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

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Let's see if I have this right.


1) The CO is planning to charter a troop with this year's 5th grade members of the pack (Webelos 2) when they cross over in the spring. This is a good thing, especially if there are no other troops in your town.

2) The most recent CM has stepped down, is apparently going to serve as the W2 den leader, and wants the W2 den to do their own thing. Not so good, as W2 are still part of the pack and by staying active in the pack, they inspire the younger boys. Mention this to the most recent CM and try to persuade him to at least attend the pack meetings, where they could serve as assistants to the new CM in running the show and maintaining order.

3) The most recent CM wants to take a chunk of money and camping gear with them to help the new troop launch. Not so bad, as troops need both to succeed. I suggest a meeting with the COR, the most recent CM, yourself and the actual DE with the request that the COR outline the basic scouting plan and approve of these money and gear decisions, just for the record.


So, as you've learned and revealed to us more about the situation, it's become less troubling, at least to me. As I was taught a long time ago, put the best construction on everything.

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