Eagle requirement - Age out deadline

[artjrk]

OK I know that the deadline is the day before one turns 18.

 

My question is what parts must be done by the deadline and what can be done after (3 month period) I understand the EBOR can fall in the Grace Period.

 

The Application Lists 6 Requirements ending with the Scout Master Conference.

 

But what about the various signature on the actual application? The reason I ask is that as one reads the application it states "CERTIFICATION BY APPLICANT. On my honor as a Scout/Venturer, all statements on this application are true and correct. All requirements were completed prior to my 18th birthday" followed by the signature blank and date. Next is the "Unit approval", Unit leader and Committee Chair and dates for them, Last is the "BSA Local Council Certification" and date.

 

In my mind is the Application is stating that the Six requirements need be complete by the deadline, but the signature do not. They just confirm that the required items were complete on time.

 

Another question is is there a reason that these four signatures need to be received in Order as listed on the form?

 

And where in the time deadline does the new Pre-certification fall?

 

Mind you my son's birthday is Saturday and will get his last Signature tonight (Thursday) and will submit the Pre-certification on Friday. So I know we will be ok. I am just wondering after reading the Actual Application form myself.

[nolesrule]

There's no specified order for the signatures. And your interpretation is correct, in that it's only the requirements up to and including the Scoutmaster COnference that must be completed prior to 18th birthday. Application and signatures do not. It's just bureaucratic nightmare... I mean overhead.

 

That said, I've read about councils that "require" the application to be completed and turned in before the 18th birthday. They are wrong, but the Eagle candidate will usually have to put up a fight with their district or council to get the ball rolling.

[jr56]

Yes, as long as all requirements, including the scoutmaster conference have been completed, the signatures can be obtained and the application turned in. It would look better if all was turned in before the 18th birthday, leaving just the EBOR to be completed.

[Beavah]

In my mind is the Application is stating that the Six requirements need be complete by the deadline, but the signature do not. They just confirm that the required items were complete on time.

 

Correct.

 

Another question is is there a reason that these four signatures need to be received in Order as listed on the form?

 

No, though it's not a bad order

 

And where in the time deadline does the new Pre-certification fall?

 

Huh?

 

Do yeh mean the council registrar's certification? That can happen anytime, but many councils expect it to be done before the EBOR to avoid any problems.

 

Beavah

[Oak Tree]

Our district's written policy is that the package should be delivered to the council office before the 18th birthday. When I pressed the district Eagle BOR chairman about it, he agreed that they would accept it delivered after that, but that he really didn't want to state that, because then people would start to parse what had to be done by when, and he never wanted to be in the position of denying a boy his Eagle because the Scoutmaster conference was done late. The written requirement, I believe, is that the Eagle application and completed project workbook should be delivered to the council office in "a timely fashion" - which our district said would mean about one week under ordinary circumstances.

 

My parsing of the requirements says:

the following things must happen prior to the 18th birthday

- the Eagle application form must be filled out all the way down to and including the Scout's signature (i.e., all merit badges, all leadership, all participation, everything that the Scout has to fill out on the form.)

- the Eagle project workbook must be complete including all signatures

- the statement of your ambition, life purpose, list of other leadership positions must be done

- the Scoutmaster conference must be completed

 

things that may happen on or after the 18th birthday (your mileage may vary)

- the Scoutmaster's and Committee Chair's signatures (although the Scoutmaster normally signs after the conference, so it would be unusual but not impossible for these to be on different days)

- dropping off the form at the council office

- actually receiving recommendations from the people the Scout listed (the Scout's requirement is to "list the names")

- local council certification

- board of review

- Scout executive signature

[Eagle92]

As one of those Eagles who had his EBOR 1 month and 4 days after my 18th Bday, and as someone who had to counsel a scout who had to petition national to allow an EBOR since he missed the council deadline due to boot camp, everything except the letters of recommendation and the EBOR had to be cmpleted by the 18th birthday.

[nolesrule]

Oak Tree wrote:

 

"the following things must happen prior to the 18th birthday

- the Eagle application form must be filled out all the way down to and including the Scout's signature (i.e., all merit badges, all leadership, all participation, everything that the Scout has to fill out on the form.)

- the Eagle project workbook must be complete including all signatures

- the statement of your ambition, life purpose, list of other leadership positions must be done

- the Scoutmaster conference must be completed "

 

No, the application does not need to be filled out prior to your 18th birthday. Filling out the application is not one of the 6 requirements.

 

Yes, the Project Workbook must be completed. It is explicitly part of requirement 5.

 

Yes, the Scoutmaster conference must be completed.

 

No, the statement of ambition, etc. does not have to be completed prior to your 18th birthday. It is not one of the actual 6 requirements except on the application, which is nothing more than a piece of bureaucratic paperwork. It is not in the Boy Scout handbook, and it is not in the requirements book (whereas the Eagle Project workbook is specified as part of the requirement 5). The statement is not part of the SMC, and the only instruction is to attach it to the application when you turn it in. In addition, the recorded date for requirement 6 is solely that of the SMC, and not when the statement was written.

 

That said, it's not a bad idea to ask a scout to have the statement ready for the scoutmaster conference.

[Twocubdad]

Our council is one which requires the fully-complete application to be submitted the day before the Scout's 18th DB. There are a number of other requirements added to the process -- additional paperwork, requirements for handling references, etc. -- which I don't believe are legitimate.

[acco40]

Think of it this way - everything that the Scout has control over must be done before he is recognized as an adult.

[eisely]

Our council changed its policy a few years ago and started signing the certification part before the EBOR. This has greatly facilitated the entire process. The council concerns itself with the requirements only. Reference letters are for the EBOR. Personal statements and scouting auto biographies are for the EBOR. By certifying the requirements before the EBOR, everybody avoids do overs at the EBOR level.

 

I have always counseled youth, and their parents, that the most important signature is the council certification that all requirements have been met. Although this signature is not required before the 18th birthday, I have always urged boys to get this signature before their 18th birthday, because then there is no further question about when requirements were met.

 

It is also cleaner if the EBOR can take place before the 18th birthday as well, but one has the 90 day window after the 18th birthday to do this without a lot of explanation.

[Oak Tree]

Yeah, nolesrule, that's why I said your mileage may vary.

 

I think my district would definitely argue that the statement is indeed a requirement. The Eagle application is a pretty official looking piece of paper.

 

It lists the statement as part of requirement 6, and then says "All requirements were completed prior to my 18th birthday." You can argue that this is just a typo or a bureaucratic statement or something, but on plain reading, the statement is part of requirement 6 on the required application.

 

Now in practice, I've seen Eagle boards let a Scout write his statement on the spot when he had overlooked it. Heck, if you argue it's not a real requirement, you shouldn't need one at all. So I'm sticking with the idea that it's required by 18.

 

I will grant that filling out the application and signing it would not be required by 18, but you'd better have a pretty good reason not to have done so. I'd be willing to argue that point before the board, but I wouldn't depend on them to buy it. I was lucky to get the Eagle BOR Lead to agree you could even turn it in late.

 

nolesrule, here's a hypothetical question for you: if the Eagle application form itself is not a requirement, could you get Eagle without doing one at all? Just on principal?

[hadulzo]

I'm sorry here but I am unclear on what you don't understand on the application. It seems clear to me. Are you using an old or modified application?

All documents should be downloaded from scouting.org.

This coupled with the 12 steps to Eagle cover all your issues, you just need to read it.