Any interest in a web-based scout advancement/progress management system?

[scoutgroove]

I'm a Scout enthusiast who also happens to be a programmer. I've noticed a few programs out there that help you manage your scouts and their advancements/progress, but MAN are they confusing and kind of slapped together.

 

Would there be any interest in a web-based (meaning that you go to a website and log in from any computer rather than install something on your computer) system that is super easy-to-use and actually makes your life easier in terms of tracking the progress of your scouts?

 

I want to make sure there is some real interest before I spend a few months building something.

 

What do you think? If you have a minute or two, I would REALLY appreciate any feedback you can give me here: http://scoutgroove.com/survey

 

I really hope this doesn't sound like spam. I don't mean it to be. I'm hoping to turn to you gurus to determine if there is an actual need out there!

[John-in-KC]

It's called Troopmaster: http://www.troopmaster.com

 

There may well be room for a competitor, but what will you bring to the table that is not already on the market?

 

I used it when it was not a networked package, and I found it very user friendly

 

If you step out with this venture, good hunting :-)

[scoutgroove]

Thanks John.

 

Troopmaster has certainly been around for awhile (I've used it a little and know plenty of others that do)... it just seems so archaic in places and outdated. It is certainly the most well-known though, I think. I know there are a few other alternatives. It just seems to me that they're all so confusing or overly complex.

 

I guess my thinking was just because Troopmaster is out there, doesn't mean it can't be done better I know its been tried before. I guess I'm just trying to get a feel for whether or not others are as confused and fed up with the hacked together programs that are out there as I am.

 

Thanks for the feedback! I'd love to hear any more anyone has. Is it worth my time? I'm certainly willing to invest it if so!

[scoutgroove]

I should also mention that there are people that love Troopmaster, and that's totally ok! I'm sure that the creator of Troopmaster has worked hard to make it is. I just didn't care for it personally and think there may be others out there like me.

 

I'm just trying to understand if there is desire for an alternative, and if so, what features everyone would want to see.

[Beavah]

Yah, lots of Troopmaster lovers.. And lots who avoid da thing.

 

Probably room for a web based competitor with smartphone and iPad app integration. Big issue is UI, and ability to turn off levels of detail yeh don't want. Some extensibility for tracking local awards would be nice, too.

 

I'll be honest, though, I don't care for da things that much. Seems like they cause units to focus too much on advancement, just by making advancement data even more visible and time/attention consuming.

 

How 'bout a package that addressed other methods as well? Things like:

 

Adult training and involvement (interface with BSA training records but include outside training like ARC and LNT).

 

Patrol method - independent campout logs, patrol competitions, patrol points

 

Outdoors - TM does some of this for advancement logging, but it could be richer.

 

Etc.

 

If yeh had enough participants, some comparisons and interactions might be fun, eh? Troops trying to have the most independent patrol activities in their state? Most outdoor activities?

 

B

 

[scoutgroove]

Awesome. Thanks for the feedback Beavah

[Eagle92]

'Groove,

 

1) Welcome to the forums.

 

2) If you offer a competitor to Troopmaster, and Packmaster as well, then GOOD LUCK as it will be an uphill battle. My suggestions would be easier to use, CHEAPER, and able to hook up to SCOUTENT as some requirements off the top of my head. I'm sure others can add can other ideas.

 

 

I am serious and sincere in the good luck comment. I am in the process of replacing a well known, respected, and, by the key users, loved product with something that is new, just as easy to use, and cheaper. BUT it is not as well known as it has been aroudn half as long as the old product. While the new product does not have the depth of content of the old product, new product has other items included and affordable options the old product have priced beyond our budget. Plus the new content is strictly evidenced based, so there is a lot of science behind it.

 

 

Again good luck.

[moosetracker]

My husband's one who loves troop master for the unit. But as the district advancement Chair, hates what the council has to offer as advancement information to gauge the progress of the district. Unfortunately to tap into the district records (or Council records) you would have to have BSA's blessings..

 

Right now at district level they can give him a report stating a troop has had 5 rank advancements (not sure if breaks down into even what ranks) and 10 meritbadges. Not what the meritbadges are in. Not who got the rank advancements or merit badges. Not what the history is for each individual scout.

 

Now our DE asked him what he is doing for Cub Scout advancement.. Say What??? As far as he knows there is nothing to track that at all.

 

Now since I am the district Training Chair (and a programmer) I will tell you what I spent the summer doing. (Not at all marketable in it's condition I may add. But it will be a very useful tool for me.

 

I am lucky in the fact that with manditory Adult training their is some movement on my front. I started the summer with an Excel of the District Roster.. It looks like the Report got converted to Excel and is chopped up into various cells.. The worst of which is the Membership # and when that breaks your second half looses leading zeros so if # 1120034.. breaks at 112 then 0034.. you get 11234 when you remerge them.. Fixed only due to the fact that our Council numbers are not all hither and yon.. We had two distict batches of numbers assigned to us.. Everything else, I got to remerge together (some of it just different cells on the same line.. Some on different cells and wrapping to different cells on different lines. But I got it..

 

Then I had two buggy Reports on the trained that only list their courses required by them for their current position (minus YPT).. and Untrained which only list those courses they need to take.. And you should fall on one or the other (not both) per each person/unit/position.. Never got the Excel on that, hand entered.. Next time will reinforce the request to Excel, but the report is so simple it will not be as bad as the roster.

 

Built an incomplete list of who needs what for training.. And just stating they are train if it states they are trained.. Skip the list, because that would open up a complaint of "Where's my woodbadge?" "I'm in the troop now, but where is my cub scout training?" etc.

 

Then Just two weeks ago they came out with a new excel spread sheet designed specifically for excel. Membership, Name, address.. (No info on unit or position) but then it list all your courses.. Took our registrar 2 times to get the Excel to me right.. first time it was missing YPT, Weather Hazard, Troop challenge.. He had to boot out some obscure courses to get the more important courses to show up.. But 2nd try was beautiful..

 

I merged with the unit info and I am about complete to send out to units individual emails per unit on the health of their unit in updating their Training with individule info on what each person needs, and what courses are recorded as them having taken..(including if YPT will expire before rechartering time.)

 

Except for the extra code to work the Excel Untrained Report when I get it.. The next time will be just updating the info..

 

But this is nothing you could sell because I am not tapping directly into the Council's database.

[moosetracker]

OK that was long. Thought so..

 

Anyway.. if you could tap into the council DB.. The ultimate software would be to start merging the info about membership, Training and Advancement and Activities (attendance for Camporees & summer camp.. Maybe start tracking other outings..) Then start doing overall comparisons of how training is effecting the the other components.. Or how membership is in units with lots of Activites verses those with few, etc..

 

Yes sort of big brother is watching.. So I am sure I will get alot of negitive feedback.. As to why and how the tool will be used incorrectly.

 

But, it would be a tool to help the council figure out how to help get all the units achieving the best program possible. Rather then having our stuggling units fall off radar and through the cracks.

[John-in-KC]

Moose,

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Distributed access to the advancement and membership modules of ScoutNet.

 

Make sure the one thing a field user CANNOT do is delete. Add? Yes. Change? Yes. Delete ... particularly a membership or an advancement? Heck, No. That should be reserved for the Registrar or the Professional overseeing advancement.

 

One of the things I truly dislike is that in internet recharter, you actually are calling a static view of the membership database down, and when you punch complete you are not uploading to ScoutNet, but rather to a queue for the registrar to work.

[scoutgroove]

Eagle92 - Thank you so much for the feedback. You're absolutely right - it would be an uphill battle because Troopmaster (among others) has been around for a long time. At the same time, however, I see that as an advantage. Its a chance to build something from the ground up with the modern features that you really need, rather than a bunch of bloat from old or outdated features. Another reason it would be something of an uphill battle is because I would start out at a very basic level, let people start using it, and then iterate (improve incrementally) based on feedback. So someone expecting to get what they currently get with Troopmaster right off the bat would be disappointed. I'm not even necessarily out to kill of Troopmaster. There may very well be room for both of us (with my site being the more distributive/collaborative solution while Troopmaster continues to play to its strengths). Because it would start out basic and grow from there, I imagine that I would need to offer it for free initially, with the caveat that I would eventually need to charge for it so that I could spend more of my time improving it. (I would love nothing more than to be able to work on it full-time!). Its an uphill battle, but its a battle I'm willing to fight IF there is a sincere desire for the sort of features a web-based collaborative service can offer. I'm willing to stick it out as long as there is a core group of passionate users who can help me build something truly useful.

 

I think another key feature, as someone else suggested to me, would be the ability to export ALL of your data into Excel (or some other universally accessible format). The data is yours and you should be able to get it how and when you want. I'm not worried about my users taking their data to a competitor because I'm confident that I can build something they love. No need to be paranoid (on my part) about that

 

moosetracker - Thanks for your thoughts! I can certainly see your point. Integration and consistency is certainly a difficult thing to do well. There are so many systems to integrate with and they all have different requirements/formats. I think integration with ScoutNet is a must. I will probably defer that until I have a basic working model on a per-unit basis going first, assuming enough people agree there is a need for what I can build.

 

John - Thanks again for your thoughts. You make a good point about security and the ability to track who is doing what (as well as not allowing certain users to do things like delete advancements). I think a really modular authorization system would be key (e.g. user x can edit this, but only view that, etc)

[Eagle92]

John,

I believe, stressing believe, that the que feature for online rechartering is a result of membership verification. Don't quote me on it, and as you can guess a very important topic to me.

[sailingpj]

It would be cool if your site offered something for Venturing and Sea Scouts. I don't know of anything currently out there for us.

[scoutgroove]

Thanks sailingpj - I'm actually really happy to hear you say that. I thought about Sea Scouts, but wasn't sure how much of a demand there would be. I may ask for some guidance from you on that

[sailingpj]

I would be happy to help any way I can.